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#1
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
I came across a small lot of 1940 Play Balls at last weekend's Tri-Star show. I now some of you will cringe, and I realize they're not worth much, but I think they're pretty cool. What really amazes me is how much effort somebody put into colorizing them with what appears to be watercolor paint. I'm curious when the anonymous artist did his handiwork. I'm guessing because the cards are in such nice shape they were colorized back in 1940. Has anybody else seen anything like this? |
#2
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Hal Lewis
They sure are pretty! |
#3
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Bob Lemke
In a 12/04 auction, a pair of "colorized proofs" of Van Mungo and Daffy Dean, authenticated by SGC, sold for $2,221 in Excellent. The Standard Catalog carries a listing for them. These may be from the same test batch. |
#4
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Hal Lewis
Way to go, Chris! |
#5
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: andy becker
way to go bob!! |
#6
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: dd
Great looking cards and a nice pick-up regardless of value. |
#7
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
I have an update on the plight of my colorized Play Balls ... About three weeks ago I sent two of the cards — a Buddy Hassett and a Whitey Moore — to GAI for authentication. Since then I have been in regular contact with Danny and Mike at GAI. Last weekend, the two cards travelled to the Philly show with GAI. Mike told me he showed the cards to a number of collectors, and the feedback was very encouraging. He even told me Alan Rosen — Mr. Mint — gave them his thumbs-up. He added that not only has SCG graded a couple, but so has PSA. But Mike said he didn't want to rush into grading them, and he wanted to take a little time and get as much feedback as possible, which seems very reasonable to me. I let him know I would be providing updates on the Vintage Baseball Card Forum, and I would be seeking more feedback as well. |
#8
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: leon
I sort of think that with all of the printing experts on the board, and the test equipment that is used today, these could be unequivocally id'd/authenticated. Our very own Dr.Rudd should probably be able to perform an analysis to see if the dot patterns etc...are commensurate with 1940 printing. regards |
#9
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
Does anybody on the board have Dr. Rudd's email address? Also, I'm curious how many series the 1940 Play Ball set was issued in. While most of the colorized cards are low numbers, Whitey Moore is #150, which I'm guessing would put him in the third series. Finally, I'd love to hear from anybody who has one of these cards ... Thanks, Chris |
#10
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Larry
Since my real job is a paint coatings engineer with 30+ years experience, it should be noted that color fast inks were used during color processes of most baseball cards that have colorization... specifically if it was done at the Play Ball printing processing center. If watercolor or gouache was used after the fact, the color would run, since acrylics were not invented at this time, a simple test would be to wet the card and if the inks do not run, then it is most likely this is a factory test issue and quite impressive..hope this helps.. |
#11
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
I've actually considered soaking one. I did it to several '41 Play Balls I found glued to scrapbook pages and the cards survived remarkably well. But I think I'll only do it as a last resort ... |
#12
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: peter ullman
those look awesome...look genuine to me. i'd think a black light would tell if color was added? |
#13
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
Here's the lastest on the plight of my "colorized" 1940 Play Balls. Global Authentication notified me today they don't "feel comfortable" grading them. I'm not sure what this means, but it seems less than definitive, so I intend to keep seeking opinions on the cards' authenticity. I've received a tremendous amount of feedback from collectors, most of it positive, but none of it concrete ... |
#14
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Sean
Have you tried the SGC route? If they have graded similar cards before they might know what to be looking for. |
#15
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
I called SGC this morning and I'm waiting to hear back from them. While I have been told by a couple collectors they have graded two of these cards, they have yet to confirm it ... |
#16
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
Here's the latest on the plight of my 1940 Play Ball "color" cards. I took them to the National and submitted them to SGC. Just like my experience with GAI, I received nothing but postive feedback until the cards were returned ... ungraded and without any explanation (does this qualify as a rejection?). But here's the really frustrating part, just a few tables away I found a 1940 Play Ball "Color Proof" of Carl Hubbell (for $8,000) ... graded by SGC!!! I pointed this out to them, and they agreed to take one of them back to New Jersey and reconsider grading it. By the way, I showed the cards to at least two dozen vintage dealers, plus a handful of guys from Mastro, and just about everybody said they believed the cards were legit, and many were very emphatic about it. Several made comments that I wouldn't have any trouble getting them graded if I was a well known dealer ... By the way, one of the guys from Mastro told me a couple of cards like mine surfaced in a collection that hadn't been touched since the early 60s, eliminating the possibility the color had been added in recent years ... |
#17
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Paul
I thought all of the grading companies used a blind grading system. How can it matter who submits the card? |
#18
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
One of the SGC guys told me they previously graded several of these cards "as a favor" to someone. He said "It is no longer our policy to grade things like this." After I pleaded with him, he agreed to take a second look, but made no assurances. He said they would let me know in the next couple days if they would grade it ... |
#19
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Soren Agard
Is there anyway you can add the scans to the top of the post again? |
#20
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: warshawlaw
Ah, innocence. Touching in this day and age. |
#21
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Paul
I apologize for not being clearer with my sarcasm. I also see no one has taken a whack at the softball I threw up there with the phrase "blind grading." |
#22
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
Call me naive, but what would be the incentive for a grading company to avoid authenticating something like my cards? I can see why they might want to stay on the good side of major dealers and auction houses, but it would seem to me that grading cards like these would be a win-win situation for any company trying to establish itself as the expert in the industry. Perhaps they're just trying to avoid controversy and playing it safe ... |
#23
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Gilbert Maines
Chris: if you want these cards graded so that you can sell them, an auction house would likely be able to accomplish that, and also give you tremendous exposure. |
#24
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Chris Counts
Finally, six months after acquiring my seven 1940 Play Ball "Proofs," I received a graded card in the mail! After all the effort, it feels a bit like Christmas in August ... |
#25
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: Zach S.
Really cool proofs, Chris. Glad to hear they finally graded at least one of them and you posted it (for some reason the original pic you posted wouldn't load for me). Is SGC going to grade any of the others now? Also, do you plan on keeping the whole lot or selling off some? |
#26
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1940 Play Ball "Color Proofs" finally graded!
Posted By: jay behrens
I can relate to your feeling. It wasn't easy getting my the e90-3 Hofman (Hofnlan) card recognized and slabbed by SGC, but in the end, all the work was very reward on more than just a monetary level. |
#27
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Does anyone own one of these? I'd like to see some pictures!
Mac |
#28
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Hi Mac,
Not sure if these are what were being discussed previously, but I saved these images of some colorized 1940 Play Balls a while back. .
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#29
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Mac I own a '39 PB "colorized" card:
__________________
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com |
#30
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i love those "colorized" cards...they're cooool!
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#31
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I've shown this before, but I really like this one so I thought I'd share it again. My colorized W572.
.
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#32
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I'm not sure what happened to the scan I posted 13 years ago, but here it is again. The Frey pictured above is also mine, but only the Demaree has been graded.
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#33
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Quote:
I can understand if the grading companies or grader might not be comfortable depending if their knowledge is indeed limited. However, there are tests that they could do very easily to determine if the colorization process was done at the printer or by Moll's Ad Agency or by someone else entirely? |
#34
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Just got this one off ebay. Doesn't look like the legit one that Chris posted, but some pretty neat after market work.
Mac |
#35
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Mac, I saw that batch turn up on eBay recently and decided to pass. I saw a bunch of folks chasing the Ruffing, but none of the cards looked good to me. On the ones I have, or had, all the color except red is applied very precisely. If you look at the blue on the socks of Demaree, there's no color that spreads beyond the edge of the socks.
Curiously, because of the batch I found 13 years ago, my brother has kept an eye out for these on eBay, and he actually managed to find one: a colorized 1940 of Bill McKechnie. |
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