Partially ripping a card opening the mail

[sportscardpete]

I think my worst nightmare happened last night... I bough a raw card online and opened the package last night, and unfortunately it happened to rip the card that was in the package! There was no top holder, bubble, tape, or even cardboard to protect the card. All that came was paper from a receipt from the purchase. I really hate making a big deal out of this, but is this enough grounds to ask for a refund? Or should I have handled opening the package more carefully? I really think that even a little protective[Card was purchased on Ebay].

To caveat, I have opened hundreds of mail packages in the last 6 years and I never broke or ruined anything. This includes raw cards as well.

[I was going to show the ripped card but it's Friday morning and I don't want anything upsetting on the board right before a weekend.. I do have photos I can send to Ebay though].

Pete

[Eggoman]

I think that you can make an issue regarding how the card was shipped - I certainly would! AND you can ask for a refund, but I suspect that you will not get one.

Good Luck!

[frankbmd]

John Daly's Guide to Opening Mail

[vintagetoppsguy]

To me, it just depends on the purchase price. If it was anything over $20, I would ask for a refund. Anything under that, I would just move on and never do business with that seller again.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

To me, it just depends on the purchase price. If it was anything over $20, I would ask for a refund. Anything under that, I would just move on and never do business with that seller again.

Agree with David but I also think it depends upon what you paid in shipping charges. And I would tell them why you aren't doing business with them again...so they can correct their shipping practices.

Z

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

To me, it just depends on the purchase price. If it was anything over $20, I would ask for a refund. Anything under that, I would just move on and never do business with that seller again.

$880 to be exact. Which just makes it even more upsetting because the least they can do is protect the card for the price.

[nat]

Someone sent an $880 card in the mail, with no protection at all!?!??!!! Not even a ten-cent top loader?!? Good luck getting a refund, but that's beyond unreasonable.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

$880 to be exact. Which just makes it even more upsetting because the least they can do is protect the card for the price.

What??? Contact seller , or EBay if necessary. Absolutely get refund. Card was inappropriately packaged and was damaged

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

What??? Contact seller , or EBay if necessary. Absolutely get refund. Card was inappropriately packaged and was damaged

+1 There's no excuse for this insanity, Pete!

[ibuysportsephemera]

That is insanity....can you let us know who the seller is please. Good luck trying to get a refund, I have a feeling though you might have a difficult time getting it.

Jeff

[packs]

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card was ripped because of the way it was packaged. The card is ripped because you ripped it. I could see your point if the card arrived torn.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card wasn't packaged properly. The card is ripped because you ripped it.

I lean towards Packs on this one. I do not think a seller should be held responsible for negligence on the part of the buyer once the item arrives into the buyers possession.

[gemmint77]

Demand a refund. What was the seller? So we can all stay far way. Good Luck

[Eric72]

What a breathtakingly irresponsible seller. Who ships an $880 card like that? I understand that some will say this is on the buyer. However, had the seller taken any reasonable amount of care when packaging the card, this would not have happened.

If it were me, I would demand a refund.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card was ripped because of the way it was packaged. The card is ripped because you ripped it. I could see your point if the card arrived torn.

He ripped it BECAUSE of the way it was packaged. $800 card. Surprised there is even a conversation about this.

[midmo]

There's no reason a $20 card should be shipped without even a top loader let alone an $880 card. That's terrible. The only time I've had a damaged item due to bad packaging it was damaged in shipping and covered by insurance. This one is tough. Seems like some fault can be placed on both sides, but I lean towards the packaging should have been better. Good luck!

[conor912]

oooh. that's a tough one. you damaged the card directly due to the seller's inept pack job. i also lean towards Packs on this one. the seller is obligated to get the envelope in your hand undamaged, which they did. however, that is an unacceptable pack-job and nowhere near the industry standard.

edited to add: if you do file a claim, please let us know how it shakes out....i'd be curious to see how eBay rules on this one....they do tend to side with buyers more often than not.

[ALR-bishop]

Given the manner of shipping I am assuming there was no insurance. Even if there was I am guessing the shipper would say coverage would not apply due to fact damage occurred post delivery.

If seller says here is how I shipped it ( badly) but it got there undamaged. and was damaged by buyer in opening it, and buyer concurs but says damage was because of unexpected poor packing by seller, what would ebay likely do ?

I agree that manner of shipping was irresponsible, but not sure what ebay would do with these facts.

[packs]

I agree that the seller should have packed the card better and there's no excuse for crappy packing. But the fact is the card wasn't damaged regardless of the packing. The card was damaged by the buyer. If you're the seller, how do you get made whole too now that your card is ripped (packing issues aside)?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by packs

I agree that the seller should have packed the card better and there's no excuse for crappy packing. But the fact is the card wasn't damaged regardless of the packing. The card was damaged by the buyer. If you're the seller, how do you get made whole too now that your card is ripped (packing issues aside)?

There is absolutely no way on earth that card didn't suffer any damage in transit, even before Pete finished the job.

[packs]

I only say that because he didn't mention any other damage. I don't actually know.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

I agree that the seller should have packed the card better and there's no excuse for crappy packing. But the fact is the card wasn't damaged regardless of the packing. The card was damaged by the buyer. If you're the seller, how do you get made whole too now that your card is ripped (packing issues aside)?

I agree. The seller got it into your hands undamaged, from what you're telling us, so his responsibility, and that of the carrier, ends there. From that point forward, it's a matter of taking personal responsibility for not being more careful.

All cards I've received have had some sort of protection, but I am always very careful to make sure the card is nowhere near where I am opening the envelope. Same when I receive letters, and orders that may contain checks inside.

Just curious, did the lack of protection result in any other damage, like a crease or damage to the corners? I'm wondering if an expensive card shipped that way did in fact arrive completely undamaged. I'd still say you were responsible for the rip though...

[midmo]

Let's see this card. Go ahead and ruin our weekend!

[markf31]

Originally Posted by midmo

Let's see this card. Go ahead and ruin our weekend!

Pictures of the card and the envelope/packing would go a long way in helping us get a better idea of the situation at hand.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know, if the card managed to make it you without being ripped I don't really see how you could say the card was ripped because of the way it was packaged. The card is ripped because you ripped it. I could see your point if the card arrived torn.

If the card was in a bubble mailer and packaged as the OP described, how is he supposed to know which end to rip from? A loose card like that is going to float around/shift inside the bubble mailer. Whenever I get a card in the mail, I always feel where the card is at inside the bubble mailer (its obviously easier on graded cards because if the thickness). Once I find the card inside the bubble mailer, I open from the opposite end as to not do any damage to the card. If the card was packaged as the OP described, how was he supposed to know where to open from - he probably couldn't have felt the card inside the bubble mailer? If he was expecting a card with no protection, I'm sure he would have been more careful. But when he spends $800 on a card, he was probably expecting some kind of protection and ripping the card was the last thing on his mind.

[jhs5120]

I'm sorry, this is the absolute worst feeling.

Talk to the seller, see if you can get a partial refund.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Talk to the seller, demand a full refund.

I fixed it for you.

[packs]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If the card was in a bubble mailer and packaged as the OP described, how is he supposed to know which end to rip from? A loose card like that is going to float around/shift inside the bubble mailer. Whenever I get a card in the mail, I always feel where the card is at inside the bubble mailer (its obviously easier on graded cards because if the thickness). Once I find the card inside the bubble mailer, I open from the opposite end as to not do any damage to the card. If the card was packaged as the OP described, how was he supposed to know where to open from - he probably couldn't have felt the card inside the bubble mailer? If he was expecting a card with no protection, I'm sure he would have been more careful. But when he spends $800 on a card, he was probably expecting some kind of protection and ripping the card was the last thing on his mind.

I agree with you that it should have been packed better but from what the OP said about what happened it doesn't sound like the card was damaged during shipping. It was only damaged upon the buyer trying to open the package. The seller should have done a better job packing the card out of courtesy and common sense but unless the card was damaged en route I don't see how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer.

[scooter729]

Ouch! And based on the only raw card to have ended in the past couple of weeks meeting the price criteria, is it appropriate to say.....

Say it Ain't So!

[Stampsfan]

$880? You sure you didn't accidently miss a decimal point in there?

I guess this is another reason to only purchase TPG graded cards...

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by packs

I agree with you that it should have been packed better but from what the OP said about what happened it doesn't sound like the card was damaged during shipping. It was only damaged upon the buyer trying to open the package. The seller should have done a better job packing the card out of courtesy and common sense but unless the card was damaged en route I don't see how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer.

You can't say the first two bold items and then state the third. The card was damaged because the seller was lazy, stupid, or both. I'm baffled that someone so blatantly stupid enough to ship a $1k card with absolutely no protection carries no fault here. The fact his item was carried and delivered by a cavalry of featherlight angels instead of the usual diamond crackers is nullified since said angels didn't hang (float, they float) outside Pete's door to warn him upon his return of the trash of a seller he was dealing with.

File a SNAD claim, get the refund, out the seller.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't see how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer.

Yes, it was damaged by the buyer, but if the seller would have done a better job of packaging, this wouldn't have happened. That's how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer. It still falls back on the seller. His lack of properly packaging the card led to the card being ripped.

Let me approach this from another angle. Let's say you purchase a frozen food product that must be refrigerated (or kept cold) and have it delivered via USPS. The seller fails to pack the product with proper packing materials that keep it cold. Is it your fault that the item arrives ruined because the seller didn't do his job? Of course not. The same thing applies here. The card was ripped because the seller didn't package it properly. Period.

[packs]

Well I only say that because it doesn't sound like the way it was packed caused any damage en route. The damage was caused by the person opening the package. Seek a refund and see how you do. Those are just my opinions.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, it was damaged by the buyer, but if the seller would have done a better job of packaging, this wouldn't have happened. That's how it contributed to the card being damaged by the buyer. It still falls back on the seller. His lack of properly packaging the card led to the card being ripped.

Let me approach this from another angle. Let's say you purchase a frozen food product that must be refrigerated (or kept cold) and have it delivered via USPS. The seller fails to pack the product with proper packing materials that keep it cold. Is it your fault that the item arrives ruined because the seller didn't do his job? Of course not. The same thing applies here. The card was ripped because the seller didn't package it properly. Period.

We can propose an example that more closely relates to the situation at hand.

My hypothetical is to say a card arrives to me, shipped in a supersaver sleeve inside a padded envelope. Sometimes those padded envelopes can be a little tough to tear or rip open especially if the seller taped the enveople closed with packing tape. So I take a pair of scissors to clip the top of the envelope off to open. In the process I cut through the supersaver and clip the card inside.

Who's fault is that? Is it the seller because he should have put the card into a more sturdy card holder or additional packaging? Or is it my fault by displaying negligence in cutting the envelope open and not taking care in opening the package that had safely arrive in my possession?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I fixed it for you.

I think it is equal parts on the buyer and seller. I have received cards in the mail with just a stamp and envelope and have managed to open without damaging the card. I have also managed to open bubble mailers with just a loose card inside without damaging anything.

It was irresponsible on the seller for shipping it poorly, but the same result could have easily happened if the seller packaged the card in a 4 inch thick slab of cardboard wrapped a million times in packing tape. I think you always need to exercise caution when opening a package - especially if you can tell the item was packaged poorly.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think you always need to exercise caution when opening a package - especially if you can tell the item was packaged poorly.

True, but you really can't tell it's packaged poorly until you open it, right?

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by scooter729

Ouch! And based on the only raw card to have ended in the past couple of weeks meeting the price criteria, is it appropriate to say.....

Say it Ain't So!

If it's the card I saw on ebay, and you're talking about the same one, I bought a raw card from this seller once (a '49 Bowman Ashburn) and it was in a toploader. But I guess we're just speculating here.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by markf31

We can propose an example that more closely relates to the situation at hand.

My hypothetical is to say a card arrives to me, shipped in a supersaver sleeve inside a padded envelope. Sometimes those padded envelopes can be a little tough to tear or rip open especially if the seller taped the enveople closed with packing tape. So I take a pair of scissors to clip the top of the envelope off to open. In the process I cut through the supersaver and clip the card inside.

Who's fault is that? Is it the seller because he should have put the card into a more sturdy card holder or additional packaging? Or is it my fault by displaying negligence in cutting the envelope open and not taking care in opening the package that had safely arrive in my possession?

I did exactly that once...it was my fault...so pissed and on a rare boxing card!

[Jewish-collector]

I don't know the seller, but what happens if they are a member of this message board ?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

I think my worst nightmare happened last night... I bough a raw card online and opened the package last night, and unfortunately it happened to rip the card that was in the package! There was no top holder, bubble, tape, or even cardboard to protect the card. All that came was paper from a receipt from the purchase. I really hate making a big deal out of this, but is this enough grounds to ask for a refund? Or should I have handled opening the package more carefully? I really think that even a little protective[Card was purchased on Ebay].

Pete

Are you saying the card wasn't even in any kind of a holder? No sleeve or card saver? If so my opinion is that is very irresponsible on the part of the seller. I would file a claim and let ebay and paypal sort it out. I would also leave negative feedback describing the manner in which the card was shipped and obviously never do businesses with the seller again.

I would expect even a $100 raw card to be in some kind of a holder between two pieces of card board and either bubble wrapped or in a padded envelope.

[sportscardpete]

Thank you all for your feedback! I tried to contact the seller directly but he mentioned that he's positive it was in a hard protective holder (there was none - I am not strong enough to rip a hard protective holder even if I tried sadly).

I will be sending this to ebay to resolve directly and can keep you all posted.

[nameless]

I do not think you'll have a problem. This happened to me once. I paid over $300 for an item and it came shipped just as yours did. When I opened it I tore it. I should have probably kept it because I am yet to see another example but I did report the issue and sent it back. Paypal refunded me right after I gave them the return shipping details. I'd be surprised if you run into any issues getting your refund. Good luck with this.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

Thank you all for your feedback! I tried to contact the seller directly but he mentioned that he's positive it was in a hard protective holder (there was none - I am not strong enough to rip a hard protective holder even if I tried sadly).

I will be sending this to ebay to resolve directly and can keep you all posted.

My guess is that the seller intended to put it in a hard protective holder, and thinks he did, but he spaced out when packing it and just stuck the card in the envelope (I assume a bubble mailer?) without one. I hope you get a refund, or at least some kind of restitution, because the seller clearly screwed up, even if it was technically you who tore the card.

[Rookiemonster]

I had a issue earlier in the year. I got a card in a bubble mailer and it was between two pieces of cardboard that was taped. So I opened the mailer and went to rip the cardboard open. Guess what? No top loader, penny sleeve etc.just the card.luckly I noticed it was like just before I bent the crap out of it.
It was also stuck to some of the blue tape that was put on the cardboard.


I left the seller natural feed and wrote in why. Since nothing went wrong I did not leave a neg. he promptly writes me a all cap message asking why. I told him to read what I wrote in the feed back and that he was lucky I didn't go full neg on his candy a$$.

[prestigecollectibles]

Every card I ship is in a holder and sent in a box like this. If I sent a $800 card it would be with signature confirmation packed securely, there are no excuses for what that seller did.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

I left the seller natural feed and wrote in why.

Is that anything like a neutral feedback?

[ibuysportsephemera]

I just don't understand some sellers. I package all my items almost the same way. Everything starts in a bag and board or a top loader, etc. Then I put it in a flat rate priority envelope with a heavier cardboard stiffener and all of that goes in a bubble mailer. All of my items have a Please Do Not Bend sticker in bright red or orange as well. Maybe that is why I have 3,800+ positive feedbacks with no negatives? As a buyer, I want my items packaged the same way, but it rarely happens.

Jeff

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Is that anything like a neutral feedback?

Hahah ahhhh auto correct always keeping it fresh. I didn't even notice the error.

[Jewish-collector]

If I sold a card that expensive, I'd send it registered mail. Because sometimes you gotta say "WTF".

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

Every card I ship is in a holder and sent in a box like this. If I sent a $800 card it would be with signature confirmation packed securely, there are no excuses for what that seller did.

Completely agree with Robert here. For many people, $800 is a great amount of money. I would be blind with rage if I received a card, unprotected, as the OP did.