Not sure if this has been posted..Mastro in the Chicago Tribune

[Reginald Marsh]

In all seriousness i really do not get it. Doug and these guys are easily found. If this dude owed me money it would have been collected at the National. In my opinion they are just waiting to see if some of the consignors just go away so they can get out of paying. I strolled by Doug and the boys on several occasions and they looked at ease in my opinion as if they had no worries in the world.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Reginald Marsh

. I strolled by Doug and the boys on several occasions and they looked at ease in my opinion as if they had no worries in the world.

Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

That proverb has rung true for centuries, whether it's shekels, dollars, or vintage baseball cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Silk Road Equity's website is to be believed, it is a firm with substantial capital. One would think a sounder business strategy would have been to inject the cash necessary to pay off consignors (could it have been THAT much?), rather than to leave them unpaid, and generate a tremendous amount of bad will by insisting they aren't Legendary's problem.

[calvindog]

Peter, you're forgetting the Mastro Rules of Conduct which are tattooed on every employee's arm upon hiring:

1) Money goes in, not out;

2) Lie always (even when unnecessary -- sometimes you just need to practice);

3) Leak lawsuits to the press to avoid questions about 1);

3) See 1) to 3).

[Peter_Spaeth]

"We typically make $1 million to $20 million equity investments, alone or as part of a syndicate, and can go much higher given our stable of relationships with institutional investors. Our financial strength gives us the flexibility to provide follow up rounds of funding and support your business through differing market conditions."

Hmmmm..... one would think.... oh well.......

[mikedenero]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Of which Doug is the President. But he claims that he's not responsible for paying any of Mastro's debts off.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse here, but does anyone know (rather than speculate) what Doug's ownership stake in Mastro/Ketap is/was and what it is in Legendary?

[Peter_Spaeth]

The issue is not really piercing the veil to get to Doug individually, in my opinion, but rather, whether Legendary (the ongoing business) is liable for Mastro's debts on an alter ego and/or fraudulent conveyance theory.

[Ladder7]

"As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is nothing more than a solitary man with a messy apartment, which may or may not contain a chicken!"

"And with Darren’s help, we’ll get that chicken."

Rob, Thanks for getting me thinking.

[David W]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

I agree that most houses will laugh off any attempted bidder boycott. But not paying consignors, and a subsequent consignor boycott, will catch up to them much faster.

That seems to be the issue. It doesn't sound like buyers never received their cards, but consignors didn't get the cash.

So it's safe to buy but not to consign, apparently.

Who then, would consign anything of significant value to them without a significant cash advance?

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by Ladder7

"As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is nothing more than a solitary man with a messy apartment, which may or may not contain a chicken!"

"And with Darren’s help, we’ll get that chicken."

Rob, Thanks for getting me thinking.

"You know Darren, if you would have told me twenty-five years ago that some day I'd be standing here about to solve the world's energy problems, I would've said you're crazy... Now let's push this giant ball of oil out the window."

[mikedenero]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The issue is not really piercing the veil to get to Doug individually, in my opinion, but rather, whether Legendary (the ongoing business) is liable for Mastro's debts on an alter ego and/or fraudulent conveyance theory.

Right - I agree 100%. But, hypothetically speaking (of course), if such claims are viable (key words here: "if" and "viable"), the same facts might (key word here: "might") implicate a veil piercing claim against the orchestrator(s).

[Rob D.]

Steve,

Your fly is open.

Signed,

Dean Jones

[mikedenero]

Originally Posted by David W

Who then, would consign anything of significant value to them without a significant cash advance?

Good point. To take it a step further, aren't there enough other viable big (or medium sized) auction house consignment (not to mention non-auction house) options out there?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by David W

That seems to be the issue. It doesn't sound like buyers never received their cards, but consignors didn't get the cash.

So it's safe to buy but not to consign, apparently.

Who then, would consign anything of significant value to them without a significant cash advance?

Dave,

I'm not an attorney, but some here would tell you that receiving your cards does not put you in the clear. If Mastro never pays the original consignor, no title has passed. The deal is incomplete and your cards could be confiscated at a later date and returned to the consignor.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hypothetically speaking, it would be very interesting to see the documentation of the Mastro/Legendary transaction.

[mikedenero]

I agree, hypothetically (of course).

[botn]

trans⋅ac⋅tion  Pronunciation [tran-sak-shuhn, -zak-]
–noun
1. the act of transacting or the fact of being transacted.
2. an instance or process of transacting something.
3. something that is transacted, esp. a business agreement.

[turtleguy64]

If you are a Feb. Mastronet consignor who has not been paid until now(like me),and you've received the Aug. Legendary Auction catalogue,do this: re-package it and send it back to Legendary with Attn: Doug Allen on the front.Media mail will do fine.Include a courteous note that you would love to bid on their auction but you have not as yet received your Mastro consignment money.It can't hurt and you are simply stating a fact.I am doing this as my protest.

[Mark]

A nice way to say it. I wish that their next auction had more in it so that you could be paid back faster.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mark

A nice way to say it. I wish that their next auction had more in it so that you could be paid back faster.

How could the auction have more in it? The word is getting out that consignors from Feb. have not been paid. Who wants to consign and worry about not getting paid?
Anybody want to forecast an over/under number on how long Legendary can stay in business. I make the line 13 months, over or under?

[Mark]

swimsuit models.

[botn]

Gosh I think they may too great to even get to 13 months. Unless of course they can promote their business by listing some cards for $25,000 on ebay.

[Sean_C]

American Memorabilia is already doing that. Unless Doug wants to put on a speedo (great, there goes my ability to sleep or keep down solid foods for the next few days.)....

Originally Posted by Mark

swimsuit models.

[turtleguy64]

I took a quick look at the Legendary August auction and it was a strange mix of some quality stuff and some "let's add more lots in spite of the values."I am sticking with my protest plan and will return the catalogue this weekend.

[turtleguy64]

Is it not true that Legendary bills consignors for getting their items professionally graded?I would like to know since a friend of mine consigned to their first auction and received a bill for 1,000.00 for getting some of his stuff graded.Anyone out there have the same experience?

[HRBAKER]

Unless I misread the post (very possible at my age and as a micro-mind), there is a post on the Non-Sports board where they sent out and billed a lady $40,000 for grading. I am sure at a level like that it was something that was agreed to beforehand.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

Is it not true that Legendary bills consignors for getting their items professionally graded?I would like to know since a friend of mine consigned to their first auction and received a bill for 1,000.00 for getting some of his stuff graded.Anyone out there have the same experience?

I thought that Mastro had a deal with grading companies to have cards graded for $7 each irrespective of tier, but I guess that is not true. Doug Allen told me that the cost of grading a single card was $250, and that was the reason why Mastro could not pay the remaining $200 due to me from my February consignments.

$250 seems like a lot of money to grade one card, but I told Doug if he could show me a copy of the PSA invoice showing the $250 charge, that we could just call it the day. It has been three weeks and I still have not heard anything from Doug.

[Anthony S.]

$250? I think that's the service tier where the return the card via unicorn.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

$250? I think that's the service tier where the return the card via unicorn.

Well played.

[Mark]

$250 is for a card with a declared value of $10,000 plus. I hope you got a good price for the card.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Wesley

I thought that Mastro had a deal with grading companies to have cards graded for $7 each irrespective of tier, but I guess that is not true. Doug Allen told me that the cost of grading a single card was $250, and that was the reason why Mastro could not pay the remaining $200 due to me from my February consignments.

$250 seems like a lot of money to grade one card, but I told Doug if he could show me a copy of the PSA invoice showing the $250 charge, that we could just call it the day. It has been three weeks and I still have not heard anything from Doug.

And does this surprise anyone?

[botn]

Doug may very well be the greatest.

[WarHoundR69]

Now it turns out that they are not paying consignors from the April Legendary Auction. There is a thread about it on the NonSports side.

[PGACPA]

Reminds me of the of a cartoon I saw a while back, I think in The New Yorker:
Two businessmen in suits standing in an office...

Q "Wow, how did you go bankrupt?"
A "A little bit at a time then all at once."

I'm afraid this is not going to end well for the Mastro/Legendary cast of characters.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by botn

Doug may very well be the greatest.

the greatest what?

[Reginald Marsh]

The truth is that if a card is a 5 figure card PSA will charge you 250 to grade the card. Alot of folks try to slide cards by putting a huge card with a common lot but all that does is piss the graders off.

I'm really trying to figure out why people still want to consign and do business with these folks. It is not like they are fetching huge dollars that another auction house cannot.

I did not even bother to introduce myself to the Legendary boys at the National because i could tell they were to cool for school. I stayed at the Marriot and saw them many times in the lobby and my first thought was they remind me of like Winnie the Pooh, very easy to read.

[botn]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

the greatest what?

Well...the greatest of the 'great' guys, of course.

[turtleguy64]

Hey,all of you posters,does this Legendary Auction /Mastro group not remind you of that docu"The Smartest Guys In The Room?"Of course,that was about Enron.Bizarre.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by WarHoundR69

Now it turns out that they are not paying consignors from the April Legendary Auction. There is a thread about it on the NonSports side.

Uh, oh. I guess I should let Dave Forman know that there will be another leak to the Daily News about him any second now...

[Reginald Marsh]

Is it me or does Ron Oser look like a Art Garfunkel stunt double?

[WarHoundR69]

According to the thread on the Net54 Nonsport Forum, the vast majority of the NonSport Cards in the April Auction was consigned by a man suffering from cancer (He has since passed away). His widow was charged 40K in grading fees and so far has only received half the money she was owed.

[calvindog]

Now that is legendary greed and cruelty.

Who will Doug blame this one on?

[Reginald Marsh]

How can anyone spend 40k on grading fees? Can we get any info on the cards that were graded in regards to how many were submitted? Also who did the grading?

[Rich Klein]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/52660...ndary+Auctions

Regards
Rich

[zork1974]

That just makes my stomach churn.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by WarHoundR69

According to the thread on the Net54 Nonsport Forum, the vast majority of the NonSport Cards in the April Auction was consigned by a man suffering from cancer (He has since passed away). His widow was charged 40K in grading fees and so far has only received half the money she was owed.

If this is true, then Legendary's conduct is beyond unbelievable. But who is surprised?
I would like to know more about this though. So far only one person has made these claims about the non-sports Legendary auction. And he is not the one who got burned.

[Anthony K.]

I see there is still trouble surrounding Mastro in this hobby.

Still upset over the shady doings and business practices between them and PSA in the 90's (which I am sure still go on today).

[buymycards]

OK, so if Doug Allen isn't associated with Mastro, why did he keep "some of Mastro's records"? He just happened to have the record of the consigner that was owed $1800?

Why would he have access to any of Mastro's records? Why would Mastro let him have these records?

I wonder who signed the check.

[WarHoundR69]

Sorta like Mastro & Dave Forman, which is happening now, and not back in the 90's.