Game Used Inserts

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Posted By: Dylan

Todays hobby produces a plethora of game used cards of vintage greats( I know the post doesnt deal with pre-war cards, but certainly the individuals on them). Now with past players there's only so much of these game used jerseys and bats and pants to go around. Especially when we talk of players from the turn of the century, this stuff is scarce! How long can the card companies of today sustain a release of Cobb and Ruth and Gehrig, etc. game used materials? I personally think its a bit of a shame that these jerseys are being cut up into little pieces and glued onto baseball cards. I know that it makes their product more valuable and Im all for them cutting up todays players jerseys if they want, there are many more of these around, but to cut up one of Ruth's few remaining Yankees jerseys seems a bit of a travesty. Whats the opinion on this being done, and how long it can be sustained in the hobby? one hundred years from now I hope we arent going to see the last Ruth or Cobb jersey being auctioned off to be made into baseball cards, IMO.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I think that the DNA remnants from these articles should be seperated out when the items are pieced up for cards, and accumulated for future auction. How much would you spend for a one gram sample of Babe Ruth?

Kinda brings new meaning to PSA/DNA.

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Posted By: steve f

'Timeless Treasures', what a contradiction. IMO it's criminal. When they run out of fabric, hickory and ash what's next?.. Swatches of remains from within the players coffins?

It's a stretch sure, but I liken it to the robbers of the 19th century, pilaging tombs in the Valley of the Kings to sell on the black market for pennies on the thousands.

Depriving generations from experiencing real American history, to make a few bucks today. BRILLIANT! Slice and dice 'em Topps and UD, for history's sports heroes.

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Posted By: Brett

Considering that Upper Deck has "Authenticated" Fake Autographs, i'm betting that alot of those "Game Used" crap isn't the real thing. I mean how can anyone tell that the little piece of bat on the card is actually from Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb ??? Just because Upper Deck says it is ??? It could be from a bat used anywhere. Its just the inside of the bat for god sakes, i don't see anything special about it.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Brett's point is legitimate. At least with an Upper Deck Ruth signature, the
collector can pay $20 to have PSA/DNA or SGC/JSA give a second opinion. I doubt
MEARS will offer an opinion on a shard of wood.

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Posted By: Paul

Such cynics. Topps is VERY responsible when it comes to shredding historic artifacts. A Topps executive said so in an interview in SCD. He explained that Topps would never destroy a historically important artifact unless there was really good money in it. For example, Topps acquired a game used Burleigh Grimes jersey, and then found out that it was the only one in the world. After realizing there wasn't a whole heck of a lot of money in Burleigh Grimes insert cards, Topps sent the uniform to the Hall of Fame. On the other hand, when Topps acquired a game used Josh Gibson bat, Topps concluded that turning it into splinters could yield big bucks because Josh Gibson cards could be the marquee cards in a set. So Topps decided to cut it apart despite its historic significance. It's all a question of balance.

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Posted By: Dylan

I would imagine that topps or UD wouldnt be in the habit of producing fake relic cards, if one person leaked this info from the inside it could destroy their reputation and their value, too much risk, and they already are raking the money in using the real pants and shirts anyways. It may end up that this decade is as good as its ever gonna get for "relic" cards. Like i said limited supply to last for year after year. The primo relic cards produced this decade may increase tremendously over the years due to their rarity. That gehrig card with the letter from the inside of the pants arent going to be made year after year decade after decade, there's only so many logo gehrig game used pants in the world.

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Posted By: James Feagin

FYI---The Gibson bat wasn't actually game-used, but that's beside the point.

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Posted By: James Gallo

I think you need to look at the size of that patch, wood chip or whatever. It's small, really small. so when you cut up a big jersey you get A LOT of small pieces. This is why the companies can pay the stupid money for a big name pieces just to cut it up.

I would like that one Ruth Jersey would last long enough so that a company wouldn't need to cut up more then one.

I think that over time anything without an autograph will become near worthless. Look at all those great insert sets from the 1990s, granted these are somewhat rarer but still crap.

Aside from the big guns most of the relic stuff is aleady junk.
I got a Mantle jersey out of the new Allen and Ginter that books for $120 and sells for $60-80 so the guide is already off.

Autographed inserts hold up much better as the autograph has value and you could always cut up the card and have teh cut signature.

I think all the card compaines were in on the insert crazy, and I think it's only a matter of time before it dies.

That is a nice Gehrig insert and it might increase in value over time assuming people care about the card/set. Regardless that is one clean autograph and that will increase in value for sure.


James Gallo

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: jP

in the end its all about money boys

dont forget there is a demand out there for this stuff. i think more so if you are a young collector who can dream of pulling a game used card of aaron, ruth etc. and all you gotta do is save your allowance to buy that $4.00-$6.00 pack.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

to the instant gratification, lottery-style life that some people lead. I've been guilty to a certain extent of buying some new stuff, although I'm in a 12 step program and quit......recovering now....

A local guy with a store also gets some vintage stuff from time to time, so I go in occasionally and on anything older than 1950, he generally calls me to help him out. It's always interesting seeing people in there mowing through wax boxes to find those 1/1's and they generally leave all the regular cards behind, so he sells the boxes, takes the 'commons' and puts sets together and then sells them. Great deal for him......he's a great salesman with it all too....someone will get a 1/5 Keith Hernandez glove card or some crap and he'll just go nuts. That's so great....blah blah blah. Let me get a polaroid of you. Which, of course, validates that as a HUGE pull!!! I'm on the wall of fame!!! Kinda like those youtube videos of those guys busting wax boxes. Great tool for a website of a cardstore..........

I've seen people mow through literally 1000's of dollars of wax boxes and cases in 30-45 minutes. But.....it's not a lot different than people buying large dollar cards otherwise. It's their disposable income and that's how they decide to burn it.

As for game used stuff, I agree with a lot of the sentiment earlier in the thread that some of this stuff shouldn't be touched but also some of it is already in either poor condition (ripped, torn, pieces) or I'd bet quite a bit of it is fake to begin with.

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Posted By: Josh Adams

I personally do not have a problem with these game used insert cards, if in fact they are "game used!" Perhaps a younger kid who likes to rip open Upper Deck or Donruss will want to learn more about the older players on these cards, and draw him into learning about the history of the game, and maybe even vintage issues.
I have a few Game Used cards myself, Nellie Fox, Cobb, Wagner, etc. I can own a piece of history, without having to pay a huge sum for a full jersey.
Will this result in the total destruction of old players' jerseys? Most likely not.

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Kenneth A. Cohen

Tom hits on an interesting point about which I happened to be talking to a fellow board member the other day. These inserts serve as a vehicle for the sports card industry's version of gambling. When you pay $15+ for a shot at a 1 of 1 whatever, it's akin to playing insta-scratch or mega-lotto. Nothing inherently wrong with that I suppose, just call it what it really is.
Ken

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

is cheap by today's standards.........$50, $100 and $500 packs. Funny to see a 45 year old guy shaking when he opens a $500 pack and gets 5 jersey cards of some NBA schmucks........but hey.....they are low numbered--right? I bet he can go right to ebay and turn them for, say......$100 or so total.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Upper Deck has made a few mistakes with the autographs, all identified as the
collectors and experts could examine the entire autographs.

I assume UD is using legit bats and jerseys, but there likely have been a few
mixups. For example, for a bat where two reputable bat experts will debate if
the bat counts as game used or not, one saying yes and one say no. And I beleive
there is a modern player case where the wrong jersey patch was inserted--
presumably a genuine game used patch, but no for the player.

Unlike with autographs, there may be no way for a collector to authenticate the
patch, certainly not as game used. As a collector, if I am spending good money
on a piece of memorabilia, I want it to be verifiable by me or other source. I
once bought a player's All-Star Game ring. I had my family friend and jewelry
expert verify that the diamond was genuine, which substantiated that it was
given to the player and not a salesman's sample.

In my opinion, the game used cards come across as a fad that will eventually
fade like the 'Promo Sample' craze. The market for cut signatures is well
established beyond card collecting, but the market for a shard of wood from
a game used bat disappears beyond cards. If Dave Bushing offered a naked shard
from a game used bat, it would likely get 0 interest and many would question
his sanity for offering it for sale. But once this worthless scrap is attached
to a Upper Deck card, it's suddenly worth lots of money. To me this is
indication of a fad.

At lest with those Comiskey Park bricks, you get an entire brick. With a chip
from the brick, you couldn't even be certain it came from a brick.

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Posted By: bill

I wouldn't be surprised if some day the geniuses
who thought chopping up history and putting them
on cards takes a t206 wagner and cuts it up into
little pieces and puts them on cards....

what a waste

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Posted By: davidcycleback

My whole bat 2nd opinion story is about an 1800s bat I purchased from one of
the big auction houses. The bat was made in prison and signed, dated and
inscribed by it's maker-- a prisoner serving a life sentence (calls himself 'a
Lifer' in the inscription). Along with the fantastic story around the bat, a
reason I had back of my mind worries about the bat was its condition: It's in
about mint condition. I was planning to resell it and figured I'd better get
a second opinion on the authenticity. I contacted the prison city's historical
society. Without giving any indication how/where I got it, I gave them a description
of the bat, including the tag on the bat. The author of the official history of
the prison, and the president of the society, said the bat was the real deal,
with the tag indicating it was made inside the prison by a prisoner. Naturally,
this was a second opinion I was happy to hear.

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Posted By: t206king

Whats next to be honest? Inserts usually go down in value, i bought a game used bat card of yogi berra. at the time they were going for like 25-30 bucks a card when they first started putting this crap on cards. now i can barely get 10 for it. people say they will go up in value but i dont see it. only the big big names will go up (Gehrig, Ruth, Aaron etc etc).

Whats next for these cards, Urine samples for the "Steroid King Series" Upper deck will do. give me a break!

Hands down for these inserts. i prefer old cards they can only go up in value!

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Posted By: jP

t206king very funny but honest.

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Posted By: Dylan

Its obvious that all of the insert cards made in the beginning have lost value. Only the rarest of inserts, players like Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Etc. can you get any insurance that it will maintain some value. It seems today that if it isnt a giant 10 color patch that no one will even spend more then 10 bucks for it, and deservedly so.

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Posted By: t206King

thanks JP , lol they may add the test results "POSITIVE" or NEGATIVE" ,
makes me laugh with cards today.

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Posted By: Brett

I remember when the Upper Deck 500 HR bat cards came out. I saw one go for $10,000 + that was graded a PSA 9. Now i see them for under $1,000.....

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Posted By: Cobby33

Not all have lost value. Some of them are very hot right now. Who knows what they'll be worth in 5 years (some more, some less) - but some of us enjoy collecting the really nice logos, so "worth" is not always measured in dollars.