Card soaking - the results!

[Vintagedeputy]

Last week I asked for opinions here and on the non-sports site about soaking glue off a vintage Allen and Ginter card.

Some people felt that the card had already been soaked based on the photos. I was positive that was not true because I could feel the glue across the back and see the brushstrokes from whatever was used to apply it. I knew that the glue was still there.

Others felt that soaking would have no effect on the card whatsoever, and it would look the same as when I started.

Last night, I finally got around to trying. First, I used a pencil eraser to remove the dealer’s pencil markings. Then, I filled a shallow aluminum pan with about 1 inch of very warm tapwater. I placed the card, glue side up in the pan and as it began to float, I rested the bowl part of a metal spoon on the top section of the card where there seemed to be no glue. I let it soak for about 8 to 10 minutes and then took a Q-tip and gently rubbed the back of the card while still underwater. I could see that even before I got to the Q-tip, the glue appeared to be virtually all gone. I removed the card from the water, placed it in a paper towel, covering both sides, and put a heavy object on top of it. I replaced the paper towel a few times and then left it overnight. Here are the final results.

The original card and the soaked version:


Resulting thoughts - it worked! The glue came off and the card looks great! There seemed to be no issue with loss of printing or color on the front of the card. It looks exactly the same.

ETA - After looking at the photos online, there does seem to be some areas where the printing is a bit lighter than on the original. Not sure if that was from the soaking or is a function of the light when the photo was taken. In either case, I'm still happy.

The one thing that I thought especially interesting was that the glue seemed to offer a protective coating to the card. Where the glue was, you can see what looks like the original color of the card stock. Around the areas where the glue was not present, you can see the hundred plus years of dirt and staining which affected the card.

Thanks all for your input.
Jim

[ALBB]

yes, much better ..no doubt

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Nothing better than a $2 investment to help you learn the ins and outs of soaking a 135 year old card! We can be very thankful for the existence of these non-sport A&Gs.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Nothing better than a $2 investment to help you learn the ins and outs of soaking a 135 year-old card! We can be very thankful for the existence of these non-sport A&Gs.

Agreed! Very thankful. If my attempts had ruined the card though, I'd still be sad even though I had only invested $2 but since it came out looking so nice, I am quite happy with the results!

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Agreed! Very thankful. If my attempts had ruined the card though, I'd still be sad even though I had only invested $2 but since it came out looking so nice, I am quite happy with the results!

Congrats and hopefully you doubled your money

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Congrats and hopefully you doubled your money

It may have even tripled!

[NiceDocter]

You are now officially graduated as a Card Doctor LOL

[jjbond]

Have you thought about just getting the glue area wet? (i.e. I don't see why the whole card - especially put face down - needs to be soaked)

[bobbyw8469]

I think this is awesome. That being said, I am totally terrified of submerging a card under water. Totally.

[boneheadandrube]

Nice work!

"That card has been bleeched, pressed, recolored and microtrimmed."
-BODA experts

[53toppscollector]

Nice job, came out great imo.

I completed my first soak of T205s a few weeks ago. Was very nervous, but it was super easy, and the result was great. Slow and steady and there is really nothing to fear.

[BeanTown]

I’ve noticed that TPGs don’t put as much emphasis on the surface of the card, but it’s mainly about the corners and sides.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by jjbond

Have you thought about just getting the glue area wet? (i.e. I don't see why the whole card - especially put face down - needs to be soaked)

Everything I've read from different sources say to soak the entire card. I think it would be incredibly difficult to apply warm water to only the glue area and keep the rest of the card dry.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I think this is awesome. That being said, I am totally terrified of submerging a card under water. Totally.

I was nervous too, but I knew that I only paid $2 for the card. Also, the thicker card stock of the A&G cards made me confident that the card's integrity would hold up, compared to maybe some thinner issues.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I think this is awesome. That being said, I am totally terrified of submerging a card under water. Totally.

If that's a fear you want to conquer, these cheap non-sport cards would help you overcome it! You wouldn't have to "graduate" to expensive material if you didn't want to, and it might just turn your fear into a fun project.

[FrankWakefield]

Well done, Jim. And thank you for the "Results".

Thoughts to consider:
Soaking that card, the entire card, would be safe because the card isn't going to instantly disolve, the card is porous, and the glue isn't just on the surface of the back, a bit is likely to have soaked in... so soaking the entire card lets that 'inside' glue migrate out while immersed in water.

Q-Tips... Q-Tips are fine, but if a longer soaking (10 minutes is very short soak) allows the glue to release, then let soaking do more of the work and you can minimize the Q-Tip scrubbing.

[steve B]

We had a very acidic scrapbook that was almost entirely trade cards. It was bad enough that the pages cracked when turning them making damage to the cards likely.

That was fun soaking, probably close to 100 cards, some closer to T3 size and thin.

Just letting the water do its thing made it easy.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Well done, Jim. And thank you for the "Results".

Thoughts to consider:
Soaking that card, the entire card, would be safe because the card isn't going to instantly disolve, the card is porous, and the glue isn't just on the surface of the back, a bit is likely to have soaked in... so soaking the entire card lets that 'inside' glue migrate out while immersed in water.

Q-Tips... Q-Tips are fine, but if a longer soaking (10 minutes is very short soak) allows the glue to release, then let soaking do more of the work and you can minimize the Q-Tip scrubbing.

In hindsight, the Q-tip scrubbing was probably unnecessary. I just wanted to ensure that no goop remained. The water did remarkably well.

[Texxxx]

I have soaked several scrap books loose. It is amazing how resilient the cards are. I have soaked some as long as 24 hours to get them to loosen with no harm. I use Q-tips and cotton balls to clean extra glue off. Just dry them between 2 sheets of white paper inside a book with weight on them so they don't get waves in them.

[Vintagedeputy]

Here’s the final verdict from SGC:

[FrankWakefield]

I know you were anxious about the process, you did well.

jjBond, if you only get the back wet, then the "dry" side of the card would wick the glue/paste/water fluid further into the cardstock... that's not what you want.

That card looks great! Congratulations!

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I know you were anxious about the process, you did well.

jjBond, if you only get the back wet, then the "dry" side of the card would wick the glue/paste/water fluid further into the cardstock... that's not what you want.

That card looks great! Congratulations!

Thank you!!!! I’m very pleased.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Nice work!

"That card has been bleeched, pressed, recolored and microtrimmed."
-BODA experts

You just won my heart.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Everything I've read from different sources say to soak the entire card. I think it would be incredibly difficult to apply warm water to only the glue area and keep the rest of the card dry.

Yes, you have to soak the entire card. Otherwise you'll end up with tide lines. And you don't want tide lines.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Well done, Jim. And thank you for the "Results".

Thoughts to consider:
Soaking that card, the entire card, would be safe because the card isn't going to instantly disolve, the card is porous, and the glue isn't just on the surface of the back, a bit is likely to have soaked in... so soaking the entire card lets that 'inside' glue migrate out while immersed in water.

Q-Tips... Q-Tips are fine, but if a longer soaking (10 minutes is very short soak) allows the glue to release, then let soaking do more of the work and you can minimize the Q-Tip scrubbing.

^^^This! 100%

Don't be afraid to let the card soak much longer. You don't want to have to scrub the surface at all if you don't have to. You will almost certainly cause damage even if you think you're being extremely gentle. If the glue is water solube, then let the water do its job. You usually don't need to assist it. I've soaked cards for an entire week before. You're not going to damage it by soaking it for a few hours, or even overnight.

However, some cards will get damaged if you soak them for multiple days. Just depends on the card stock. I wouldn't soak a 52 or 53 Topps for days, but you could soak a 54 Topps for a month.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

In hindsight, the Q-tip scrubbing was probably unnecessary. I just wanted to ensure that no goop remained. The water did remarkably well.

In the rare case where a Q-tip is necessary, you definitely don't want to scrub with it. Just gently roll it across the surface first, underwater.

Also, if you're going to be soaking more cards in the future, you should get yourself a roll of the Viva Signature Cloth paper towels. They're the best option for the drying phase, IMO.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

^^^This! 100%

Don't be afraid to let the card soak much longer. You don't want to have to scrub the surface at all if you don't have to. You will almost certainly cause damage even if you think you're being extremely gentle. If the glue is water solube, then let the water do its job. You usually don't need to assist it. I've soaked cards for an entire week before. You're not going to damage it by soaking it for a few hours, or even overnight.

However, some cards will get damaged if you soak them for multiple days. Just depends on the card stock. I wouldn't soak a 52 or 53 Topps for days, but you could soak a 54 Topps for a month.

Always test a cheap common before a HOFer if you have never tried soaking that year of card before. How long you can soak a card varies greatly by year/brand.

To the OP, very nice result. The card looks amazing.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Always test a cheap common before a HOFer if you have never tried soaking that year of card before. How long you can soak a card varies greatly by year/brand.

To the OP, very nice result. The card looks amazing.

Thank you, Ben!

[bobbyw8469]

Do you think the warm water made a difference or would cold have worked just as good?

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Do you think the warm water made a difference or would cold have worked just as good?

I 100% believe that you need to use warm water, if not hot to get the glue to loosen up.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Do you think the warm water made a difference or would cold have worked just as good?

Warm water always works better/faster. I use a machine-washable heat pad when I soak cards. I just place it underneath the Pyrex containers I use and wrap it around. Works great. And I'll put a couple of dice or poker chips on the cards to keep them submerged in the water until they're fully soiled. Usually, you can take those off after a few minutes and the card won't float after that (again, depending on the card stock; as some cards are floaters no matter how long they've been submerged).

Here are some pics of my setup and a link to the heat pad I use as well as the 4x6 glass containers I use.

https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Enrichme.../dp/B01KVYTV86

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C5LZ4GX


...

[FrankWakefield]

As the temperature of the water increases, so does the possibility of fading the ink on the front. That's my experience. I use tap water and patience. (My tap water is ok, I happily drink it; buying distilled water is overkill.)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Here’s the final verdict from SGC:

Nice bath. Congrats!
.

[Chris Counts]

Here are a couple 1941 Play Ball cards that I successfully soaked out of a scrapbook.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nice bath. Congrats!
.

Thanks, Leon!

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

Here are a couple 1941 Play Ball cards that I successfully soaked out of a scrapbook.

Those are pretty sweet!

[Yoda]

At one time wasn't using distilled water rather than tap recommended?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

At one time wasn't using distilled water rather than tap recommended?

Depends on how nasty your tap/well water is. The water here has way too many chemicals in it. It leaves a white chalky residue on everything.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

At one time wasn't using distilled water rather than tap recommended?

I always use distilled water. I suppose if your water is as pure as the fallen snow, then give it a go. But a gallon of distilled water is about $1.50 here in CA. I think it's worth getting.

[Fuddjcal]

Great job...I want to soak ALL MY CARDS NOW!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Great job...I want to soak ALL MY CARDS NOW!

Most already have been with some of them multiple times.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Great job...I want to soak ALL MY CARDS NOW!

Thanks! I only paid like $2 for the card so it was a small risk.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I'm an autograph guy. Haven't been into unsigned cards for decades, but had always wanted to try my hand at soaking. Finally had the opportunity when I discovered this beauty pasted onto the back of a rather meaningless signed album page. For my first attempt, I was definitely pleased! Have had the occasion to try a couple of other times since, but the cards weren't practically pack fresh like this thing!

I do notice now that this one could benefit from an additional soaking to remove that staining from where it had been pressed against the facing album page for 70+ years.

[bobbyw8469]

Do you have a BEFORE pic?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I do notice now that this one could benefit from an additional soaking to remove that staining from where it had been pressed against the facing album page for 70+ years.

The facing album page must be more acidic than the card because that stain looks like acid damage to me. That won't come out just by soaking it in water longer.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Bobby: I do have a before pic somewhere, but it's nothing interesting. It's only of the front of the card on the album page. I can tell you that after separating card from page, only a lone spot of paste remained on the back. This was removed with a Q-Tip. It was definitely attached to the album page with much more than that one spot of substance. The rest seemingly dissolved in the bath.

Travis: Thanks for your experienced insight, which I agree with. It's too bad no further improvement can be made, but I'm still very content with the result since this was my inaugural attempt.

[Prof_Plum]

A couple of 'scientific' concepts that might help with soaking are using a larger bath volume and more frequent bath changes.

[bcbgcbrcb]

We should just be able to send our album pages to PSA and have them soak the cards, remove them and then grade and encapsulate. Works for the comic book industry with CGC pressing and then grading books. Why not cards?

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

We should just be able to send our album pages to PSA and have them soak the cards, remove them and then grade and encapsulate. Works for the comic book industry with CGC pressing and then grading books. Why not cards?

When it comes to PSA, it’s usually the customer that gets the soaking.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Travis: Thanks for your experienced insight, which I agree with. It's too bad no further improvement can be made, but I'm still very content with the result since this was my inaugural attempt.

Further improvements can be made. But it would require something else in addition to just water.