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#1
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: warshawlaw
I want to preface this by stating that I am not trying to slam anyone here; I am trying to raise a concern about something I have seen that should be of interest to all of us who buy or sell cards through auctions. I really want to know how the other members feel about what I am describing below and whether we should as a group seek to arrive at a consensus and perhaps seek to exert some influence with respect to this issue. |
#2
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: davidcycleback
A possibility is that the person consigned his own card to Leland's and it didn't make the reserve, so he's selling it on his own. Many major auction houses, not just Lelands, have their own stuff in their auctions. Some take issue with this practice, but it's never bothered me. If the stuff is authentic and well described, I doesn't bother me that it is owned by the auction house. I'm not sure why it should. |
#3
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: warshawlaw
If the auction house owns it, shouldn't the result be reported as a non-sale rather than as a price realized? |
#4
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: davidcycleback
Adam, I don't know how it works/worked. Though, Sotheby's does list which lots did not meet reserve, including in their last sports acution. Sotheby's and Christies' got into big trouble not so long ago over consigment fees, so one can assume that Sotheby's is walking the straight and narrow in their disclosure and prices realized practices. |
#5
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Jonathan Perry
Adam, |
#6
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Something is not right here. Certainly if I owned Lelands, I would not be happy to have one of my employees re-selling lots for my winning bidders. |
#7
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: WP
JP, |
#8
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
I'm not trying to defend anyone here but here's something to think about. |
#9
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: leon
I know of people that buy lot's of stuff from auction houses. They immediately turn around and sell it via ebay or any of the other myriad of ways to sell. Sometimes they make money sometimes they don't. I don't discredit any consignee for not getting the price hoped for, as long as they did a good job (on whichever venue they are on) of promoting it. On ebay, as long as it ended in the evening, ran at least 7 days, and had big scans, what more can you ask for? Can't win everytime....though it would be nice..(I don't know all fo the facts in this case but am just making a point)..regards all |
#10
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
Scott Gaynor buys a lot of stuff from Leland's and loses money all the time when he flips it. I think this has been discussed here before. |
#11
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: andy becker
this is too funny. does anyone really think that some "unknown" party bought cards from lelands and contracted a leland employee to sell them on ebay.... |
#12
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Chad
If I bought something from Leland's and wanted to flip it, I'd consider contacting him. Since he works with leland's he'd have easy access to the lots I'd won so there'd be no shipping cards around the country and his ebay auctions are well run. This is just to say I think Jon is on the up and up here. Honestly, I have to think more about whether I think there are conflicts of interest here and how I'd feel if one of my consigned lots sold for the minimum bid and then popped up on ebay in the fashion described above. It's a gray area, I think. |
#13
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Jay Miller
Let me get this straight. Someone buys a lot in Lelands for X and then pays a 17.5% buyers premium on top of that so he is into the lot at at least 1.175X (at least because there may be shipping charges/tax/etc). He then decides to sell it on ebay where lets say his total cost of selling is 5%. That means that he must realize almost 25% more than the Lelands winning bid just to break even. My sense is that this is not a great long term business model. Adam, you raise some good questions which I'm not sure have been fully answered. |
#14
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Nathan
I'm not too comfortable with Leland's explanation either... |
#15
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: joe
This does sound strange as Jonathan Perry is the same person i have talked to on the phone and emails about consigning items from my collection to Lelands. |
#16
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Rob
The result is usually that the flipper loses money and I've made money. Fact is that's it's tough to flip anything in vintage through buying from an auction house or Ebay with the expectation of quickly selling that item for a profit. My favorite example is where someone bought an 1888 Hall Imperial Cincinnati team cabinet on Ebay, then tried to sell it in a Lipset auction, where the realized price was $1000 less. Of course, the consignor could had bought that card back, eating Lipset's consignment fees, which would had been about $1000 as well. |
#17
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: cmoking
If there is any doubt there is a conflict of interest, that means it's probable that there are many who would consider it a conflict of interest. Just because the person in question (the employee/consultant of Lelands) doesn't think its a conflict of interest does not mean that others don't think so. |
#18
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Do the main auction houses allow people (that have consigned material to them) to bid on their own items? I would think that this is a poor practice but then again all the person has to do is enlist someone else to do the bidding and nobody would know unless of course the item went back to auction and the auction house saw that the original consignor was again trying to sell/pedal the item in question. I couldn't imagine that a large auction house would track this type of activity. |
#19
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: leon
I will state again that I have no idea about that particular Lelands auction. It is common practice to allow consignors to bid on their own items in auctions, in general. If they didn't allow it then other people would do it for them. What's the difference except a public perception that it's not happening when in reality it is. (and yes that perception could be good enough to say you can't bid on your own item). No need to be an ostrich with your head in the sand though. I am not making a statement about it being right or wrong I am just saying it is done and I understand why. Bottom line is always bid what you are comfortable with on an item and you won't get the short end of the buy. regards all |
#20
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Rob
It hasn't been pointed out the Auction Houses are often giving advances for valuable items. Now, suppose the consignor wants a quick loan, but really wants to keep his valuable collectible. The consignor gets his advance and the Auction House gets it's item to sell. The Auction House will set a low enough reserve to encourage bidding, yet the consignor wants far more than the opening bid. He is definitely going to bid his item up to a level where he either keeps the item to at least a point where the "advance" is less than or equal to what a Pawn shop may offer as a loan, (good luck trying to find a Pawn Shop loaning money for baseball cards) or bid it up to a level where he would had been happy to had sold it on his own. |
#21
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
I agree with you Leon, but I think in an auction setting there is the perception that you are going to get a "deal" on something. If consigners are allowed to bid on their own items then that may make some people shy away from the auction house. There really is no real way for the auction houses to police this though as like you said they'll just have someone else bid on their item for them. |
#22
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Card ended at $99.99. Slightly less than the $400 bid plus the juice in Leland's auction. |
#23
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Win some, lose some. |
#24
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Josh
when we enter an consignment contract with a consignor, it is clearly written AND verbally agreed upon, prior to us accepting the lot or lots into our auction, that the consignor may not bid on their own items....HOWEVER... |
#25
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Mark
As an aside, I note that Adam's price guide and Leland's description are at odds with one another on whether or not the athlete depicted opn this T229 was "the" harley davidson. |
#26
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: Wesley
Mark, The description in the Leland catalog is correct. The athlete on the T229 card was a roller skater and has nothing to do with Harley-Davidson Motorcycles, which is a combination of Bill Harley and Arthur Davidson's names. |
#27
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Is this questionable behavior by an auctioneer?
Posted By: warshawlaw
Has been corrected in subsequent versions. |
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