M116 rarities-- request for info

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Hi everyone,

I am researching M116s and would love to be in contact with anyone who has copies of these scarce variations:

McConnell, Chicago

McQuillan, Cincy

Bates, Cincy (may be only one known)

Seymour, Baltimore

I am especially interested in knowing what back they have. I'm guessing "300 Subjects" but would like confirmation.

More questions about the set will be forthcoming.

Thanks in advance--

Tim

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Posted By: Andy Cook

Tim, the Bates was an Over 300 back.
Andy

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Posted By: fkw

Hi Tim,

Here is mine (its now in a SGC20 slab)



PS There was a much nicer one on ebay about a month ago too.

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Posted By: Matt

The one on ebay was also a 300 series.

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Posted By: Mark T

I am sure you already know this but all McQuillan Cincy and McConnell Chicago cards will have the "over 300" backs.

Although you never know....

Its funny, Lew Lipset's article states "Time may, however, prove that they're not really that rare."

Pop reports show that they are very scarce. I think Lew was looking into the future and thinking a ton of these 2 variations will be found but to my knowledge, not yet.

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Posted By: Matt

"I am sure you already know this but all McQuillan Cincy and McConnell Chicago cards will have the "over 300" backs."

Mark - that's been the assumption although there is reason to speculate that they could have a different back. Tim - I hope you don't mind me sharing some of this (if you do, I'll remove it so that you can put it in your article):

To supposition is that Sporting Life issued the 300 series back (for all series) starting with the release of series 19-24. The team changes for McConnell and McQuillan were actually made available before series 19-24 were, which leaves the door open.

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Posted By: Mark T

May collectors tend to overlook how scarce H.O.F are with the "over 300" back. While you see a few of Collins, Cobb and Jennings with them, Hans Wagner is very, very scarce with that back. I used to own a M116 Wagner PSA 4 with that back and did tons of research to see if there were any others and i believe i only found 2.

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Posted By: Matt

There was a raw Wagner 300 series that sold on ebay about 7 months ago and Barry sold one in his last auction as well if I recall. I actually don't think Wagner is so tough with that back. It's too bad PSA/SGC don't denote this in their pop reports as otherwise we'd have some more evidence to go on.

edited to add, it seems Barry sold yours

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

on the scarcity of the Series 1 cards (Wagner, Cobb, etc.) with the 300 Subjects back. I have seen a fair number of them, but I don't think I'd call them common. However, as Matt says, population reports are useless because the grading companies have never really paid much attention to the M116 backs they grade (actually, there's no particular reason they should).

One clarification: I think the ads do show that McQuillan and McConnell (and Bates and Seymour) were given new teams at almost the same point when Series 19-24 were first issued. Since 19-24 have the 300 Subjects back, it seems reasonable to assume that these changed cards also have that back-- but I don't think we can assume it without further research. Hence my original question to the board. still hoping to hear from a few more lucky owners of these cards....

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Posted By: Richard Masson

I think you will find that the McQuillen is much easier than the McConnell. The Bates and Seymour are near unique (1-2) as best I can tell. Lew or Scotty B may have more dope.

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Posted By: Matt

Richard - that should be correct; the McQuillan (post team change) was available for a much longer period of time then the McConnell (post team change).

Tim - I sent an email - the team changes were listed 2 weeks before series 19-24 were offered. I would assume, however, they all were produced and shipped at the same time (and hence only exist with the 300 subjects back), but that may not be the case.

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Posted By: Preece1

The McQuillen is definitely much easier than the McConnell. I have had two McQuillens and the opportunity for others, but have only seen one McConnell in the last few years. The Seymour last went for auction in a Lew Lipset Auction about 5 years ago and went for roughly $20,000 including juice. I was in a bidding war with a certain "MSNBC" individual and thought the price was getting too high (times sure do change don't they). Lew told me that he had heard of one other Seymour that was in a collection from the NE, but the collector had passed away and he did not know where the card landed.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

So please educate me...

I have a Shafer Sporting Life card, and it has this back.




This is the '300' back that you guys talk about, right?? Are all 300 backs tough, or just the ones listed at the top?


I always liked Shafer after I used him as my pinch hitter / pinch runner in old Statis Pro days.

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Posted By: Matt

Frank - Tim is working on an article on the topic that will have a lot of information, but here is a brief answer.
It seems Sporting Life switched to the issuance of the "300 Subjects" back when series 19-24 were released. Cards in those series should only exist with that back. They also re-issued some of the earlier series cards form that point onwards and those re-issues also contained the "over 300" back.
Much of the issue of scarcity has to do with how they were distributed, in series. If you already bought a Honus Wagner during the first several months of release, you probably wouldn't buy another, and therefore the re-issued early series cards with the 300 backs are somewhat difficult. That said, series 1 was overloaded with stars and certainly more people bought series one cards even later in the run, then bought cards from other series due to the star quotient. Therefore "over 300" backed cards of players not in the first series, and players not in series 19-24 are pretty tough. Cards in series 19-24 are more scarce then their earlier counterparts due to a more limited time of being avialable, but since they only contained new players that had not yet been released, buyers who were collecting the whole set, bought them as well.

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Posted By: Bob

Tim- My McQuillen Cinn. has a blank back.
tbob

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Posted By: Mark T

This is the McQuillan i own and was wondering...have you noticed this on M116 McQuillan Cincinnati cards, my crude arrow is pointing to maybe a chip in printing plate that may have picked up ink. I have seen 3-4 like this. Does yours or any you may have seen have this? Looking under a eye loop i can see it is definitely ink from the process.


Thanks

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