NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-28-2021, 07:00 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default Likely HOFer without a rookie card

I may have posted this some time back but it continues to bother me as a HOF collector.

Everyone has to have at least one rookie card by default, right? Wrong.

Carlos Beltran had a HOF career and despite his involvement in scandal likely will eventually be voted in. But his rookie card depicts another player, one Juan Lebron. Seems Topps mixed these two young Latin prospects up, as Lebron's card depicts .. wait for it … Beltran.

To me, it's hard to call either a RC. I mean who the hell wants a rookie card depicting another player, or a card depicting a player but with someone else's name.

You can't make this up. So what's a collector to do?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l1600 (2).jpg (77.9 KB, 309 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600 (3).jpg (79.9 KB, 310 views)
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-28-2021 at 07:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-28-2021, 07:30 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 5,761
Default


1995 SP Top Prospects - [Base] #111 - Carlos Beltran
Courtesy of COMC.com

Beltran's first year in the majors was 1998, with 63 plate appearances, so if you don't like prospect cards, go with a 1998 card.

1998 Leaf Rookies & Stars - [Base] #323 - Carlos Beltran
Courtesy of COMC.com
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.

Last edited by swarmee; 02-28-2021 at 07:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-28-2021, 07:43 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default

I settled on the prospects card, but not happy with it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg beltran.jpg (75.2 KB, 294 views)
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-28-2021, 08:01 PM
Rookiemonster's Avatar
Rookiemonster Rookiemonster is offline
Dustin
Dustin Mar.ino
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Nj
Posts: 1,445
Default

1999 finest is a pretty nice alternative
__________________
Just a collector that likes to talk and read about the Hobby. 🤓👍🏼
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2021, 08:20 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookiemonster View Post
1999 finest is a pretty nice alternative
Nice card but on what theory?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2021, 08:25 PM
BearBailey BearBailey is offline
Brandon Bailey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 308
Default

I wouldn’t worry about Beltran getting in the hall of fame until Trammel, Grich and Rolen do, once those 3 are in Beltran might have a chance based on WAR, as far as outfielders And the eye test I would think dale Murphy, Joe Carter and Dwight Evans would get in long before Beltran.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-28-2021, 09:14 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is online now
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,407
Default

Beltran was a stud in the postseason I think that is the push he needs to get in. Not a first year but I do believe he gets the votes he needs over time.
J
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-28-2021, 09:37 PM
HRBAKER's Avatar
HRBAKER HRBAKER is offline
Jeff
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 5,254
Default

I think the SP Prospects card is by far the best option of the three 1995 shown in the thread. If I had to pick btw the two Topps cards, I'd go with the right picture every time. IAE, if the Topps card was correct I might like the SP better anyway.
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page

HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos

"Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-01-2021, 12:46 AM
bcbgcbrcb bcbgcbrcb is offline
Phil Garry
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,342
Default

I would like to note that there already is at least one player in the HOF whose only rookie card pictures another player, 1930’s catcher, Rick Ferrell from the 1931-32 Exhibits 4-on-1 set.

Last edited by bcbgcbrcb; 03-01-2021 at 12:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-01-2021, 12:59 AM
bcbgcbrcb bcbgcbrcb is offline
Phil Garry
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,342
Default

Also from 1995 and in a MLB licensed set, Topps/Bowman made the same mistake with their Bowman’s Best mirror image card w/Juan Gonzalez, identified as Juan LeBron but picturing Carlos Beltran in a different pose.

Also, using the now ever-popular First Bowman Card designation in the upper left-hand corner of the card, Beltran appears with correct photo in the 1997 Bowman set, certainly a better option than either 1998 or 1999 IMHO.

Last edited by bcbgcbrcb; 03-01-2021 at 01:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-01-2021, 08:41 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BearBailey View Post
I wouldn’t worry about Beltran getting in the hall of fame until Trammel, Grich and Rolen do, once those 3 are in Beltran might have a chance based on WAR, as far as outfielders And the eye test I would think dale Murphy, Joe Carter and Dwight Evans would get in long before Beltran.
Trammell was elected to the HOF in 2018.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-01-2021, 09:20 AM
The Cardfather's Avatar
The Cardfather The Cardfather is offline
Charles
Cha.rles
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New Jersey (But born & raised in Brooklyn, NY)
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
Beltran was a stud in the postseason.........
J
Most Mets fans would disagree with that.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NLCS102006.jpg (46.7 KB, 249 views)
File Type: jpg gettyimages-97299051-1024x1024 - 50.jpg (52.1 KB, 248 views)
File Type: jpg gettyimages-97299051-1024x1024 cut.jpg (9.6 KB, 249 views)
__________________
.

- Charles

Check out my collection..........
http://ImageEvent.com/The_Cardfather

Check out my stuff for sale.........
(Message me for Net54 members direct sale discount.)
https://www.ebay.com/str/thecardfathersstore
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-01-2021, 09:33 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 7,035
Default

I would personally go with Juan, but I like off beat cards anyway and collect sets. If I collected rookie cards I think I would have all 3 of the 95s and maybe John's 98 Leaf all together in my binder and let someone else worry about which was the "real one"
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-01-2021, 09:47 AM
bobsbbcards's Avatar
bobsbbcards bobsbbcards is offline
Bob F.
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 667
Default

Aurelio Rodriguez might get voted into the hall by the veterans committee. That would be funny.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-01-2021, 10:12 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,534
Default

I'd go with the Juan card too. Rather have the right photo than the right name.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-01-2021, 11:02 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I'd go with the Juan card too. Rather have the right photo than the right name.
Agree, but the hobby says otherwise.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-01-2021, 11:06 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,534
Default

Isn't there a Hap Felsch card that has the wrong name? That card still sells pretty well based on the image and not the name.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-01-2021, 01:37 PM
Rookiemonster's Avatar
Rookiemonster Rookiemonster is offline
Dustin
Dustin Mar.ino
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Nj
Posts: 1,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Nice card but on what theory?
1999 is his actual rookie season. The card depicts Beltran and says rookie on it. If you don’t like that prospect card.
__________________
Just a collector that likes to talk and read about the Hobby. 🤓👍🏼
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-01-2021, 03:24 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookiemonster View Post
1999 is his actual rookie season. The card depicts Beltran and says rookie on it. If you don’t like that prospect card.
I see. Thanks. I guess my thinking now is to just stick with the prospects card, and my second choice, contrary to the verdict of the hobby, would be the Lebron card picturing Beltran. The whole thing is weird.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-01-2021 at 03:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-01-2021, 05:24 PM
Rookiemonster's Avatar
Rookiemonster Rookiemonster is offline
Dustin
Dustin Mar.ino
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Nj
Posts: 1,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I see. Thanks. I guess my thinking now is to just stick with the prospects card, and my second choice, contrary to the verdict of the hobby, would be the Lebron card picturing Beltran. The whole thing is weird.
Agreed , I think that would consider the error card as his “rookie” to have. The sp 1995 you have is nice I would prefer that over the error. If it has to in 1995 then I like your choice.
__________________
Just a collector that likes to talk and read about the Hobby. 🤓👍🏼
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-01-2021, 06:32 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is online now
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 9,275
Default

In football cards, the great Green Bay Packers fullback Jim Taylor's nominal RC is the 1959 Topps which shows Cardinals player Jim Taylor. And...wait for it...Topps did it again in 1960. The first Jim Taylor card to show Jim Taylor is the 1961 Topps card. The 1961 sells for a multiple of the 1959 or 1960 cards, so that is sort of the answer: go for the first card of the actual player.

__________________
At ten all I thought about was card collecting. At twenty all I thought about was women. At thirty all I thought about was success. At forty all I thought about was money. Now all I think about is retirement...because all I want to think about is card collecting!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-01-2021, 07:01 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default

Last I checked, the nominal Beltran card sells for way way more than the Lebron card picturing him. No clue why.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-01-2021, 07:59 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BearBailey View Post
I wouldn’t worry about Beltran getting in the hall of fame until Trammel, Grich and Rolen do, once those 3 are in Beltran might have a chance based on WAR, as far as outfielders And the eye test I would think dale Murphy, Joe Carter and Dwight Evans would get in long before Beltran.
I can't disagree on Evans (67.1 WAR), but Beltran's career WAR (70.1) is higher than Murphy and Carter COMBINED (46.5 + 19.6 = 66.1).

Interestingly enough, if you look up Carter's "Most similar batter" on Baseball Reference, the #1 match is Murphy (Carter is #2 on Murphy's list).
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-01-2021, 08:12 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 710
Default

For context, all the center fielders with a higher career WAR than Beltran who are not in the Hall of Fame:

Mike Trout 74.6

That is all.

Next on the list is Kenny Lofton at 68.4, who I also think is more than qualified and I believe the highest WAR for anyone ever to go "one and done" on the ballot.

Behind them on the list in order are 5 Hall of Famers - Snider, Dawson, Ashburn, Hamilton.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-01-2021, 09:30 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 21,332
Default Hall of Stats take

http://www.hallofstats.com/player/beltrca01
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at www.jamesspaethartworks.com. He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-02-2021, 03:34 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Love me some Hall of Stats (I’m biased, as my brother runs the site, but still).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-06-2021, 08:00 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is online now
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Agree, but the hobby says otherwise.
The Hobby has a long history of valuing the name on a card vs the picture. This is an E98 with Cy Young's name and Irv Young's picture. It us not the only one there are several E sets from the same year with same Young Error. An E97 is the only one I ever owned and was not sad to see it passed on to another collection. Because I think the person pictured on the card is very important.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 77321a_med.jpg (10.0 KB, 118 views)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-09-2021, 08:26 PM
HRBAKER's Avatar
HRBAKER HRBAKER is offline
Jeff
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 5,254
Default

What does the hobby think is more important in order:

1. The # on the flip
2. The name on the card
3. The picture on the card
__________________
Check out my aging Sell/Trade Album on my Profile page

HOF Type Collector + Philly A's, E/M/W cards, M101-6, Exhibits, Postcards, 30's Premiums & HOF Photos

"Assembling an unfocused collection for nearly 50 years."
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:39 PM.


ebay GSB