NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-07-2016, 09:39 PM
Sean's Avatar
Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Woodland, California
Posts: 3,819
Default T206 Wet Sheet Transfer vs. Impression Cylinder Transfer

A couple BST threads discussed WST and Cylinder Transfers, so I hope that this thread can help.

A WST is usually caused by a printer placing a sheet of cards which are not quite dry on top of another sheet. A faint amount of ink transfers to the other sheet. WSTs are usually very faint and lacking in clarity.

ICTs are quite different. Quoting Ron Kornacki," ... offset printing (is) where a plate image transfers to a blanket cylinder and then onto the paper. If the paper is not fed, the blanket image will transfer to the impression cylinder. If that happens, a reversed image would print on the back side of the paper the same time the image is printed on the front. Normally the impression cylinder would be cleaned if a misfeed happened before feeding another sheet in to avoid the error reverse printing." If the cylinder isn't cleared, you get an Impression Cylinder Transfer.

The ICT images are reversed, just like the WSTs. However, the ICT is much darker and more clear, as it didn't transfer from a different sheet, but was printed directly on the back of the sheet being printed.


For comparison, here is a WST (Bescher) followed by an ICT (Bowerman):


scan0001.jpg scan0002.jpg


scan0003.jpg scan0004.jpg

Last edited by Sean; 01-07-2016 at 09:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-2016, 09:41 PM
Sean's Avatar
Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Woodland, California
Posts: 3,819
Default

As a further example, a couple WSTs (Ganley and Rucker) followed by an ICT (Tinker):


scan0005.jpg

scan0006.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-08-2016, 12:45 AM
Jantz's Avatar
Jantz Jantz is offline
Archive
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,737
Default

There are two types of Wet Sheet Transfers.

Those that happen during production in factory (Rucker) and those that happen outside the factory after production (Ganley).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-08-2016, 06:31 AM
Sean's Avatar
Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Woodland, California
Posts: 3,819
Default

Jantz, how can you tell which happened in the factory from those that occured later?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-08-2016, 07:03 AM
z28jd's Avatar
z28jd z28jd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,052
Default

The Ganley was from a storage issue. There are quite a few Sweet Caporal cards out there that have the fuzzy image transfer, like either from the cards getting wet, or being stored in a damp place. I actually have two(and have seen others) that also have the top right darkening with the same fuzzy image, so it may have been a huge stack that suffered some type of fire damage or storage issue.

Side-by-side you can easily tell the difference between a wet sheet transfer SC back and one that was moisture related after it left the factory, just from the crispness in the transfer
__________________
Check out my two newest books. One covers the life and baseball career of Dots Miller, who was mentored by Honus Wagner as a rookie for the 1909 Pirates, then became a mentor for a young Rogers Hornsby. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CV633PNT The other has 13 short stories of players who were with the Pittsburgh Pirates during the regular season, but never played in a game for the team https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CY574YNS
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-08-2016, 07:50 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,141
Default

The post factory transfers aren't from simply being damp. I'm not sure exactly how they happened, but I did try to cause one using a soaked card and pressure over a few days. That caused no transfer at all.

There's a number of types of post factory transfers too.

I believe the Ganley was part of the dealer inventory that was in a fire years ago. I have a couple EPDG cards that are scorched the same way but slightly worse and when I wondered about why so many of the ones I saw had the same scorching someone mentioned the fire. So maybe heat plus water plus maybe a chemical extinguisher?

The Bescher I believe is also post- factory. Unless they were using a multi color press, it would be very unusual to get that many colors involved in a wst. Cards like this I suspect the transfer is from years of abrasion caused by a bit of vibration.

The inks used are not water soluble, the carrier would have been either oil based or possibly something like Shellac or linseed oil. We'll probably never know for sure since the ink formulations were trade secrets.

I've shown this before, and while it's not printed by lithography it's a similar thing. A stamp printed on cardstock that left a transfer on another while in the mail. The last printing of these was around 1894, so the transfer came somewhat over 100 years after printing!
Similar cardstock, and similar ink is used in engraving.


What's really interesting about the cylinder transfers is that they show for sure that the press used for that card was a fairly modern press, possibly entirely rotary, and using plates. Some of the flatbed presses which used stones didn't have an impression cylinder and printed directly from the stone.The Willetts cards with the blue nail or wire mark have an impression of the object on the back which is a clear indicator of having been printed on one of those direct presses.

So there's solid proof that two different types of press were used.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is a T206 Wet Sheet Transfer??? iggyman Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 79 11-07-2023 04:30 PM
My first T206 Wet Sheet Transfer Eric72 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 27 03-04-2013 05:35 AM
T206 Wet Sheet Transfer Help Idiottax Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 12-05-2012 11:56 PM
FS: Another T206 wet sheet transfer drumback Tobacco (T) cards, except T206 B/S/T 5 08-20-2011 06:59 PM
T206 Old Mill and a possible odd wet sheet transfer, help?? B O'Brien Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 04-13-2010 06:14 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:55 AM.


ebay GSB