Your first NHL game and other prominent games you attended

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by goldenage

I'd say that too, but I saw Bobby Orr play. Mario just dominated on the ice like anyone except Bobby Orr.

Never got to see Orr, but Lemieux also holds the title for me (Jagr is a close second). It's truly hard to compare players from different generations. I'm sure Connor McDavid would run circles around our favs from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. But different nutrition, conditioning, rules, equipment, etc...

[goldenage]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

Never got to see Orr, but Lemieux also holds the title for me (Jagr is a close second). It's truly hard to compare players from different generations. I'm sure Connor McDavid would run circles around our favs from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. But different nutrition, conditioning, rules, equipment, etc...

The greatest coach in NHL history speaks to McDavid and Orr in this article. It's a great read. Both Bobby and Connor are mentioned in the same breath when people talk about "quick feet", or "going from zero to sixty".

Gretzky speaks to the terrible skates the guys had to skate on in the fifties and sixties. My guess is that only McDavid could keep up with Orr today. Both of them are on a different level.

https://www.tsn.ca/bowman-on-the-uns...f-orr-1.586976

[mikemb]

First game was around 1980, NY Rangers vs. Chicago Black Hawks at Madison Square Garden.

Was at MSG for game 7 of the 1993-94 Eastern Conference finals when Rangers won in double overtime.

Mike

[Writehooks]

I've been fortunate to earn my living in Canadian sports media for 45 years, starting with covering the Vancouver Canucks in 1975. Relocated to Edmonton in 1982 and covered the Oilers dynasty through '92, then turned to fulltime freelancing. For what it's worth, the most dominant player I ever saw was Orr, with Gretzky a distant second. The most talented player I ever saw was Mario. Best pure goal scorers: Mike Bossy, Joe Sakic. Most exciting to watch: Guy Lafleur, Gil Perreault. Best goalie: Patrick Roy.
Just my 2 cents worth ...

[irv]

Originally Posted by Writehooks

I've been fortunate to earn my living in Canadian sports media for 45 years, starting with covering the Vancouver Canucks in 1975. Relocated to Edmonton in 1982 and covered the Oilers dynasty through '92, then turned to fulltime freelancing. For what it's worth, the most dominant player I ever saw was Orr, with Gretzky a distant second. The most talented player I ever saw was Mario. Best pure goal scorers: Mike Bossy, Joe Sakic. Most exciting to watch: Guy Lafleur, Gil Perreault. Best goalie: Patrick Roy.
Just my 2 cents worth ...

Great story.

Thanks for sharing.

[goldenage]

Originally Posted by Writehooks

I've been fortunate to earn my living in Canadian sports media for 45 years, starting with covering the Vancouver Canucks in 1975. Relocated to Edmonton in 1982 and covered the Oilers dynasty through '92, then turned to fulltime freelancing. For what it's worth, the most dominant player I ever saw was Orr, with Gretzky a distant second. The most talented player I ever saw was Mario. Best pure goal scorers: Mike Bossy, Joe Sakic. Most exciting to watch: Guy Lafleur, Gil Perreault. Best goalie: Patrick Roy.
Just my 2 cents worth ...

Totally agree about your assessment comparing Orr to Gretzky. Orr dominated in a way that the younger generation couldn't fathom. You just couldn't get the puck off him. Like Bobby Hull said to the ref during a game, "You may as well get another puck for the rest of us to play with, because no one is going to get it off of that kid".


Patrick Roy was not as dominant as everyone thinks. Yes, he got a lot of wins playing with Montreal and Colorado, but the top five save percentage leaders all time are Hasek, Dryden, Bishop, Thomas, and Rask. All four have a lifetime save percentage over .920

In 20 NHL seasons Patrick Roy only had three seasons where his save percentage was above .920, and his lifetime save percentage was .910

Tim Thomas did the impossible one year in 2011 against Vancouver where he set the all time record postseason performance for goalies. He had a .967 save percentage that entire postseason, and he was the most dominant goalie ever in the postseason in 2011.

Dominik Hasek has the most impressive numbers in NHL history, and I have no problem with anyone ranking him as the greatest of all time.

Even Marty Broduer with all his wins does not have an impressive lifetime
save percentage. Broduer is #42 all time in save percentage and Patrick Roy doesn't even crack the Top 50.

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/reco...e-leaders.html

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by goldenage

Totally agree about your assessment comparing Orr to Gretzky. Orr dominated in a way that the younger generation couldn't fathom. You just couldn't get the puck off him. Like Bobby Hull said to the ref during a game, "You may as well get another puck for the rest of us to play with, because no one is going to get it off of that kid".


Patrick Roy was not as dominant as everyone thinks. Yes, he got a lot of wins playing with Montreal and Colorado, but the top five save percentage leaders all time are Hasek, Dryden, Bishop, Thomas, and Rask. All four have a lifetime save percentage over .920

In 20 NHL seasons Patrick Roy only had three seasons where his save percentage was above .920, and his lifetime save percentage was .910

Tim Thomas did the impossible one year in 2011 against Vancouver where he set the all time record postseason performance for goalies. He had a .967 save percentage that entire postseason, and he was the most dominant goalie ever in the postseason in 2011.

Dominik Hasek has the most impressive numbers in NHL history, and I have no problem with anyone ranking him as the greatest of all time.

Even Marty Broduer with all his wins does not have an impressive lifetime
save percentage. Broduer is #42 all time in save percentage and Patrick Roy doesn't even crack the Top 50.

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/reco...e-leaders.html

Patrick Roy was as dominant as people think.
Literally everything you stated was based on save %.... just that one stat.
Factor in all other stats for goaltenders and Patrick Roy is hands-down ONE of the greatest of all-time.

ROY:

- the only PLAYER in NHL history to win the Conn Smythe Trophy three times, the only one to do so in different decades, and the only one to do so for two teams.
- Most NHL playoff wins by a goaltender
- First NHL goaltender to win 500 games
- popularized the butterfly style of goaltending, which has since become the dominant style of goaltending around the world.
And, most importantly - selected as the greatest goaltender in NHL history in 2004 by a panel of 41 writers, coupled with a simultaneous fan poll

Hasek has great numbers, but his career is at best 12 "full" seasons (he played in 735 games in parts of 16 NHL seasons). Compare that to Roy's full 18 seasons...

If you consider shorter careers, Bill Durnan posted stats as arguably impressive as Hasek.... and he was certainly more dominant, albeit for a shorter period.

- selected to the NHL First All-Star Team IN EVERY SEASON HE PLAYED except one, which equates to six in seven seasons (six selections for Hasek in parts of 16 seasons)
- won the Vezina Trophy as the top goaltender in EVERY SEASON HE PLAYED except one, which equates to six in seven seasons (Hasek won six Vezina Trophies in parts of sixteen seasons)
- won a pair of Stanley Cup championships in just seven seasons (Hasek also won a pair, but over parts of 16 seasons)

Also, Hasek's NHL career average of 2.20 is only slightly better than Durnan's of 2.36, while Durnan registered a better win % than Hasek throughout his career.


.... if save % was the stat to gauge careers on, then goaltenders you mentioned at the top of that statistic would be considered the best all-time, and we know that is no where near the case for the likes of Bishop, Thomas and Rask.

[powderfinger]

Thanksgiving (US) night, 1964, second balcony in old Chicago Stadium. Hawks vs. Rangers. You generally couldn't get a ticket to a Hawks game in those days, but somebody who did have them decided to spend the evening with family and offered a friend of my father's his six tickets for the game. My dad took my younger brother and I, his friend brought his brother and his son. Six of us packed into one car (front seats were bench seats back then). Ten future Hall of Famers on the ice that night.

I did see the final game of two Stanley Cup Finals series, but unfortunately, saw Jean Beliveau skate the Cup around the ice after a game seven win, then Henri Richard do the same thing when they beat the Hawks in six games a year or two later.

Does anybody out there think John Ashley was anything but a Canadiens homer?

[goldenage]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Patrick Roy was as dominant as people think.
Literally everything you stated was based on save %.... just that one stat.
Factor in all other stats for goaltenders and Patrick Roy is hands-down ONE of the greatest of all-time.

ROY:

- the only PLAYER in NHL history to win the Conn Smythe Trophy three times, the only one to do so in different decades, and the only one to do so for two teams.
- Most NHL playoff wins by a goaltender
- First NHL goaltender to win 500 games
- popularized the butterfly style of goaltending, which has since become the dominant style of goaltending around the world.
And, most importantly - selected as the greatest goaltender in NHL history in 2004 by a panel of 41 writers, coupled with a simultaneous fan poll

Hasek has great numbers, but his career is at best 12 "full" seasons (he played in 735 games in parts of 16 NHL seasons). Compare that to Roy's full 18 seasons...

If you consider shorter careers, Bill Durnan posted stats as arguably impressive as Hasek.... and he was certainly more dominant, albeit for a shorter period.

- selected to the NHL First All-Star Team IN EVERY SEASON HE PLAYED except one, which equates to six in seven seasons (six selections for Hasek in parts of 16 seasons)
- won the Vezina Trophy as the top goaltender in EVERY SEASON HE PLAYED except one, which equates to six in seven seasons (Hasek won six Vezina Trophies in parts of sixteen seasons)
- won a pair of Stanley Cup championships in just seven seasons (Hasek also won a pair, but over parts of 16 seasons)

Also, Hasek's NHL career average of 2.20 is only slightly better than Durnan's of 2.36, while Durnan registered a better win % than Hasek throughout his career.


.... if save % was the stat to gauge careers on, then goaltenders you mentioned at the top of that statistic would be considered the best all-time, and we know that is no where near the case for the likes of Bishop, Thomas and Rask.

Goaltenders don't win games. Good teams win games. Marty Broduer won lots of games making 20 saves a night. Would Marty have won all those games playing for the Buffalo Sabres facing 35 shots a night ?

Hasek wasn't given a chance when he first entered the league. Chicago had him as a backup to Ed Belfour and Buffalo even had Fuhr start ahead of him in a playoff series. Go check out Fuhr and Hasek's numbers in that series. It was a joke that they wouldn't give Hasek a fair shot. Go watch game 6 of the Chicago-Penguins series when Belfour was pulled and Hasek replaced him. It wasn't even close who the better goaltender was. Hasek stoned Lemeiux on two breakaways. Which was impossible back in that day.

There was a Canadian goaltender bias back in that day. Europeans were not given the same chance the way Canadians were. Same with coaching back in the day, and pretty much even up till now. Most coaches have to be Canadian or American to get a good coaching job, but the player side has got better over the years. Not knocking it, just saying what the data shows us.

Durnan never faced a curved stick, or a Bobby or Brett Hull slapshot.
Would love to see Durnan face an Ovie or Chara shot with a fiberglass stick. He'd be toast.

Tim Thomas was one of the greatest goaltenders all time. No one gave him a shot out of high school or college. He was always a back up. On team USA in the Olympics he backed up Ryan Miller. On the Bruins it was always him and Rask. BTW, Thomas and Rask are in the Top 5 save percentage all time, so yes, I do see them as two of the greatest ever.

Tim Thomas lifetime playoff and regular season save percentage numbers are considerably better than Patrick Roy's, and you're going to tell me that Patrick Roy was a better shot stopper than Tim Thomas ? No. Tim Thomas stopped the puck better than Patrick Roy.

Not sure if you ever looked at the 2001 playoff numbers for Thomas, but they aren't even human. He belonged in another league with Bobby Orr.