Talkin "Black Sox " guys....show your Tobacco, Candy, etc. cards of those "involved"

[tedzan]

I will start this show with "Chick" Gandil......






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The "Black Sox" scandal of the 1919 World Series has been a controversial story for 102+ years. I recommend a well written book on this subject titled
"RED LEGS and BLACK SOX", by Susan Dellinger. Susan's source for the events in that BB season of 1919 are her Grandparents.....HOFer Edd Roush.



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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[edjs]

Here’s a couple with ol’ Buck.

[Eric72]

"Sleepy" Bill Burns.

16 year old me first heard the name in Eight Men Out. Christopher Lloyd turned in a very good performance and brought the character to life. I have never been able to separate the two.

[Seven]

Ted,

Although he was considered to be uninvolved, "Cocky" Eddie Collins, did hit a measly .226 that world series. I really need to work on my prewar collection!

[tiger8mush]

"Knuckles" Cicotte, the grossly underpaid White Sox star pitcher, lost 2 of his 3 starts in the 1919 World Series. He was the first of the 8 men to confess his participation in the scandal.

Here a few, the 1922 strip has Eddie Collins and Ray Shalk

[chadeast]

Another Burns

[tedzan]

Two 1919 World Series opposing Infielders from neighboring towns here in Pennsylvania....who grew up near where we live here in Pennsy.


. . . .
RED LEGS -------------------------------------------------------- WHITE SOX



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[benge610]

The "9th Man Out".
I like to throw curve balls.



Ben
"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[Kawika]

[3finger1908]

just saw this one, awesome, my collection is exclusively 'as White Sox' but eventually I will move on to the beautiful Zeenuts

Originally Posted by Kawika

[Epps]

In keeping the theme of Lefty and also the sharpest PSA 2 that I have ever seen

Lefty.jpg

Buck.jpg

Buck Back.jpg

[3finger1908]

Thanks Epps, that standard biscuit Lefty is a thing of beauty. My collins-mccarthy is indeed off center upwards, but it doesn’t bother me and I think great for the grade. The tango eggs Weaver/Tinker mixup is sharp too, but it’s a gross violation of the childish ‘good guys’ vs ‘bad guys’ approach I bring to my Cubs and Black Sox collecting. 🤣🤣🤣

Originally Posted by Epps

In keeping the theme of Lefty and also the sharpest PSA 2 that I have ever seen

Attachment 547963

Attachment 547964

Attachment 547965

[EddieP]

On his way back to Chicago after a game in Boston, Chick Gandil met with a group of gamblers at the Ansonia. The rest, as we say, is history.

[jsfriedm]

T205 Cicotte

[pitburgfan]

Here is my Blacksox contribution.

[joejo20]

[Matt]

Don't recall seeing this posted:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4GdVT72Cnt2WrDPdA

[benge610]

Originally Posted by Matt

Don't recall seeing this posted:

Thank you for posting this Matt. I have been looking for a companion piece for my Bob Groom thing here. (not to hijack the thread, sorry)
He picks up the save in Game 1 and no-hits this squad in Game 2. (May 6, 1917)



Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[deadballera]

here are a couple to contribute

[tedzan]

Eddie Cicotte's 1917 W - L = 28 - 12 (White Sox are World Champs)

Eddie Cicotte's 1919 W - L = 29 - 7 (White Sox are AL Champs)

Comiskey had promised Eddie Cicotte a $10,000 bonus if he could win 30 games in a season. In 1919, when Cicotte closed in on the 30-game goal,
Comiskey had him benched to keep him from reaching the mark. Comiskey's stated reason for having manager Kid Gleason bench Cicotte was that
with the Sox headed for the World Series he had to protect his star pitcher's arm.
What a laugh....Cicotte was a "knuckle-ball" pitcher (and a very effective one).

Both Cicotte and Gandil requested salary hikes.....Comiskey denied them both. The rest is history.


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Northviewcats]

A few more of dishonest (?) Abe (accused but not convicted)

[nolemmings]

I think I've shown this trio before:

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I think I've shown this trio before:

Nice Black Green-Joyce Sox!

Brian

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Nice Black Green-Joyce Sox!

Brian

Very Nice

I have the matching Joe Jackson

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Eddie Cicotte's 1917 W - L = 28 - 12 (White Sox are World Champs)

Eddie Cicotte's 1919 W - L = 29 - 7 (White Sox are AL Champs)

Comiskey had promised Eddie Cicotte a $10,000 bonus if he could win 30 games in a season. In 1919, when Cicotte closed in on the 30-game goal,
Comiskey had him benched to keep him from reaching the mark. Comiskey's stated reason for having manager Kid Gleason bench Cicotte was that
with the Sox headed for the World Series he had to protect his star pitcher's arm.
What a laugh....Cicotte was a "knuckle-ball" pitcher (and a very effective one).

You're getting this from 8 Men Out and its wrong.

Cicotte won his 29th game on September 19, he made 2 more starts after that. On September 24 he pitched against the Browns and gave up 5 Earned runs and 11 hits in 7 innings. His last start on September 28 against the Tigers, he only pitched 2 innings and gave up 1 run on 3 hits. He had a legitimate shot at 30 wins but pitched poorly.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Jim65

You're getting this from 8 Men Out and its wrong.

Cicotte won his 29th game on September 19, he made 2 more starts after that. On September 24 he pitched against the Browns and gave up 5 Earned runs and 11 hits in 7 innings. His last start on September 28 against the Tigers, he only pitched 2 innings and gave up 1 run on 3 hits. He had a legitimate shot at 30 wins but pitched poorly.

Curious. Eddie pitched the final game of the regular season, and was leading 2-1 after 2 innings. Why pitch him at all so close to the World Series if you're trying to save his arm? And one run in 2 innings is not exactly getting shelled. So I see where he can't complain about not being given a chance to meet his 30 win mark when he could have made it a few days prior against the substandard Browns, but I could also see where he might be miffed about that last game.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Curious. Eddie pitched the final game of the regular season, and was leading 2-1 after 2 innings. Why pitch him at all so close to the World Series if you're trying to save his arm? And one run in 2 innings is not exactly getting shelled. So I see where he can't complain about not being given a chance to meet his 30 win mark when he could have made it a few days prior against the substandard Browns, but I could also see where he might be miffed about that last game.

I dont disagree on the last game, maybe it was an actual tuneup to get some work.

Im just disputing the myth that he was benched. 8 Men Out has so many lies and myths, it should be a work of fiction. Its a shame that people continue to believe the lies when everything can be so easily checked today.

[tedzan]

James..... "You're getting this from 8 Men Out and its wrong."

I have never seen the movie "Eight Men Out".....so, your assuming I did is incorrect.

I read what I posted regarding Comiskey / Cicotte many years ago; and, I don't recall the source.

Much information regarding this situation has been Sports writers theories, so we really don't know what the real facts are.
And, we'll most likely never know.


TED Z
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[Jim65]

Originally Posted by tedzan

James..... "You're getting this from 8 Men Out and its wrong."

I have never seen the movie "Eight Men Out".....so, your assuming I did is incorrect.

I read what I posted regarding Comiskey / Cicotte many years ago; and, I don't recall the source.

Much information regarding this situation has been Sports writers theories, so we really don't know what the real facts are.
And, we'll most likely never know.


TED Z
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You're correct, I worded it wrong. I should've said "this came from 8 Men Out" instead. But it doesn't change the fact that its wrong information. Cicotte was not benched.

[tedzan]

Thanks Pat

The poster currently on ebay is slightly different than the one I have. In size and color. Apparently, this poster was replicated by more than one printer.

I usually remember where (or from whom) I acquire my stuff from. It was quite a number of years ago that I purchased this poster. I think it was from
a Hobby Shop in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. I do recall though, that I paid only $5 for it. It cost me $55 to frame it. It is a cool poster, so it's worth it.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks Pat

The poster currently on ebay is slightly different than the one I have. In size and color. Apparently, this poster was replicated by more than one printer.

I usually remember where (or from whom) I acquire my stuff from. It was quite a number of years ago that I purchased this poster. I think it was from
a Hobby Shop in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. I do recall though, that I paid only $5 for it. It cost me $55 to frame it. It is a cool poster, so it's worth it.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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+1 agreed very cool looking poster and would look great framed

[ThomasL]

Lucky to have an original supplement from Feb 1919 (the full supplement which also features the 1919 Cubs on another page)

[ThomasL]

that 1919 team Underwood photo is missing the last player on the right sitting name and thus the person who underlined the 8 men out incorrectly has Byrd Lynn underlined instead of Lefty Williams

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks Pat

The poster currently on ebay is slightly different than the one I have. In size and color. Apparently, this poster was replicated by more than one printer.

I usually remember where (or from whom) I acquire my stuff from. It was quite a number of years ago that I purchased this poster. I think it was from
a Hobby Shop in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. I do recall though, that I paid only $5 for it. It cost me $55 to frame it. It is a cool poster, so it's worth it.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Yes the ones on ebay are a copy of an original Chicago Tribune page that sold in a heritage auction.

Here's the original that sold in Heritage with the same stain as the copy's.
https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I will start this show with "Chick" Gandil......





.


The "Black Sox" scandal of the 1919 World Series has been a controversial story for 102+ years. I recommend a well written book on this subject titled
"RED LEGS and BLACK SOX", by Susan Dellinger. Susan's source for the events in that BB season of 1919 are her Grandparents.....HOFer Edd Roush.

I recommended this book in Post #1. Very informative from a player in the Deadball era who was a part of this mystifying story.




TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Exhibitman]

[ValKehl]

Ted, this rarity might fit in with your Gandil back run:

[cardsmemro]

I’ll add my humble 1914 Polo Grounds Collins to the mix

[babraham]

My W514 White/Black Sox strip cards.
Currently just missing the Cicotte to complete the team set.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Ted, this rarity might fit in with your Gandil back run:

Oh, Val. That has the “blue” caption. Wouldn’t work at all. It would, however, look good in my collection.

[ThomasL]

Brian - Nice to see that the Schalk Faber and Kerr graded out well!

[MikeGarcia]

...Talkin' baseball with Hap Felsch..... The "trolley series" of 1944 with St.Louis Browns vs.St. Louis Cardinals.............note the Pevely Ice Cream sign....... ( I think I read once that despite going six games , the series did not have one stolen base )?

..

..

[ThomasL]

While I have sold and cosigned most of my cards, I still have (and just picked up a 1912 Zeenut) my Joe Gedeon cards

[t206kid]

How about the ball used in Game 5, one of the thrown games!

[babraham]

Originally Posted by t206kid

How about the ball used in Game 5, one of the thrown games!

Nice! We just emailed about that ball a couple weeks ago.
Cool to see a pic of it!

[Epps]

Have a good amount of the Black Sox as this is what I primarily collect, but thrilled to pick up this one last night. Been chasing this card for 8+ years. Now only if I can locate that McMullin with tab.

Zeenut Risberg.jpg

[ThomasL]

Congrats Epps on the pick up its a great card! (one of my cosigned cards...probably should have worked out a deal here!)

I decided to go after the 1916 and won that one