NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:32 AM
RiceBondsMntna2Young's Avatar
RiceBondsMntna2Young RiceBondsMntna2Young is offline
∆|@π ¢h3π
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 36
Default Whether Lifted Gloss Equals Paper Loss and How it Affects PSA grade for you.



Wanted to get a second opinion about whether the missing gloss in the top right white border constitututes paper loss to you?

How would it affect your appraisal of a card in terms of PSA (or SGC) grade?

How would it affect your personal appraisal of the card, dollar-wise and feels-wise? What about if the card was already graded Altered?

Thanks for your thoughts!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:47 AM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

I would believe that is an indicator of a rebuilt corner.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:02 AM
LuckyLarry's Avatar
LuckyLarry LuckyLarry is online now
L@rry T1p+0n
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,867
Default

vintage dried out tape removal? I dont know how PSA would grade this I would guess paper loss.
Larry
__________________
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:01 AM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,518
Default

Unfortunately, the answer is contingent upon who is submitting the card.

In this case, I would lean more towards tape removal (or perhaps the result of using a mounting corner) than a completely rebuilt corner.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:26 AM
samosa4u's Avatar
samosa4u samosa4u is offline
Ran-jodh Dh.ill0n
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,254
Default

Take it into a dark room and shine a UV light over it.
__________________
Successful transactions on Net54: Peter_Spaeth, rustywilly, esehombre, scooter729, NiceDocter, Mishu2nite, wolf441, jdeptula, mckinneyj and more!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:24 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,146
Default

Depends on whom submits the card>>>>that's the bottom line
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:54 PM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,466
Default

Looks more than lifted gloss. Looks as if the first layer of the stock is removed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:21 PM
RiceBondsMntna2Young's Avatar
RiceBondsMntna2Young RiceBondsMntna2Young is offline
∆|@π ¢h3π
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
Looks more than lifted gloss. Looks as if the first layer of the stock is removed.
Agreed, so what do you think the grade impact should be?


Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Unfortunately, the answer is contingent upon who is submitting the card.

In this case, I would lean more towards tape removal (or perhaps the result of using a mounting corner) than a completely rebuilt corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLarry View Post
vintage dried out tape removal? I dont know how PSA would grade this I would guess paper loss.
Larry
It also looks to me like a piece of tape stripped off the top layer on that corner. Do you dock a grade (2, 3 grades?) automatically for that? Or is the ceiling for any card with this type of surface damage, say a PSA 2, max, no matter how otherwise nice?

I haven't seen the card in person but I'm trying to nail down a fair price range for a card that already has a confirmed trimmed edge. The discussion is, how would this card otherwise grade if it hadn't been trimmed - like how does it show? The subtract from there since it's also altered.

Last edited by RiceBondsMntna2Young; 01-14-2020 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:17 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,518
Default

Ugh... everyone is still so hung up on a number grade. It's really quite meaningless to assign a number to this.

I guess if you were to pretend it's not altered, then maybe a 3 at best.

If the tape (or whatever it was) took off more than just the glaze, and it lost the very top layer of paper, then a 2 at best. But either way it's an "A" so what does it really matter?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:35 PM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is online now
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,332
Default

I know you're showing the area 'missing' the gloss, but the picture makes it confusing, as it looks like there is paper loss there. Can you post a picture where we can see what the card 'really' looks like overall? In other words, not in a way/angle intended to show a lack of gloss in a specific area, but what the card actually looks like in hand?
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land

https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm

Looking to trade? Here's my bucket:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706

“I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.”
Casey Stengel

Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s.

Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:40 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Ugh... everyone is still so hung up on a number grade. It's really quite meaningless to assign a number to this.

I guess if you were to pretend it's not altered, then maybe a 3 at best.

If the tape (or whatever it was) took off more than just the glaze, and it lost the very top layer of paper, then a 2 at best. But either way it's an "A" so what does it really matter?
Mark they’re hung up on number grade because it’s all about the money what they can get for it when they sell it. It’s a shame....psa has them hooked like a trailer

Last edited by Johnny630; 01-14-2020 at 05:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:52 PM
RiceBondsMntna2Young's Avatar
RiceBondsMntna2Young RiceBondsMntna2Young is offline
∆|@π ¢h3π
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Ugh... everyone is still so hung up on a number grade. It's really quite meaningless to assign a number to this.

I guess if you were to pretend it's not altered, then maybe a 3 at best.

If the tape (or whatever it was) took off more than just the glaze, and it lost the very top layer of paper, then a 2 at best. But either way it's an "A" so what does it really matter?
The number grade only matters insofar as you’re trying to establish an approximate fair market value for something. I’m as severe a critic of TPGs as anyone but part of the reason they have such a powerful hold on the industry is that when done right, a numerical grade can help collectors put a card on a rough curve, charting condition and therefore dollar value. Until there’s another better objective platform on which to discuss subjective value, this is the best I can think of right now if I want to be able to speak the same language as the seller.

Last edited by RiceBondsMntna2Young; 01-14-2020 at 05:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:56 PM
RiceBondsMntna2Young's Avatar
RiceBondsMntna2Young RiceBondsMntna2Young is offline
∆|@π ¢h3π
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny630 View Post
Mark they’re hung up on number grade because it’s all about the money what they can get for it when they sell it. It’s a shame....psa has them hooked like a trailer
I know you’re talking about the sad state of the industry in general but if the sale of cards is never about the money in any measure, I’d be interested in buying your cards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
I know you're showing the area 'missing' the gloss, but the picture makes it confusing, as it looks like there is paper loss there. Can you post a picture where we can see what the card 'really' looks like overall? In other words, not in a way/angle intended to show a lack of gloss in a specific area, but what the card actually looks like in hand?
That’s fair. Let me see if I can get you a different angle. The problem is that the above picture was taken to show me how that corner looks at an angle, to highlight the damage. I don’t actually know how the card looks in hand so I couldn’t tell you whether the above picture is more accurate than the one coming up.

Last edited by RiceBondsMntna2Young; 01-14-2020 at 06:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:07 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceBondsMntna2Young View Post
I know you’re talking about the sad state of the industry in general but if the sale of cards is never about the money in any measure, I’d be interested in buying your cards.
You’re late to the sale.... the graded... they’re all gone.
I don’t begrudge anyone for wanting to make money/profit on their cards. I, just replying to why I believe people are hung up on the number grade.
.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:35 AM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,518
Default

Since the card is also trimmed, WTF does it matter what a hypothetical number grade would be? That's the part I take issue with. The card is an "A" regardless... case closed.

The only real reason (IMO) that someone would care about a hypothetical number is for the prospect of buying it, and later trying to re-grade or pass it off as a numerically graded card.

And if this is really what the TPGs have "done right" (according to the OP), it might take an eternity to dig into everything they've done wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:10 PM
RiceBondsMntna2Young's Avatar
RiceBondsMntna2Young RiceBondsMntna2Young is offline
∆|@π ¢h3π
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Since the card is also trimmed, WTF does it matter what a hypothetical number grade would be? That's the part I take issue with. The card is an "A" regardless... case closed.

The only real reason (IMO) that someone would care about a hypothetical number is for the prospect of buying it, and later trying to re-grade or pass it off as a numerically graded card.

And if this is really what the TPGs have "done right" (according to the OP), it might take an eternity to dig into everything they've done wrong.
Well, I mean, I'm trying to buy it. And I don't know how much to pay for it because not all Altered cards are created equal, right? Isn't that your larger point after all, to buy the card, not the letter or number designation? What do I ground my offer in then? Or do I just take the average sale price of an Altered example to the seller and say take it or leave it. It presents better than average imo and it wouldn't be fair to him. So much cynicism these days...I get it, I'm right there, but I really wonder what some of these negotiations these days look like. I imagine a lot of arm-crossing and pouting with a tinge of snorting.

Also, way to twist my point about the utility of a numerical grading system in theory into a defense of how the TPGs actually behave on the hobby. I will say, I'm not sure I see this level of paranoia as helping to make this hobby any better than Mastro and company.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How does a card w/ paper loss grade a 4? vintagehofrookies Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 26 07-06-2014 07:25 PM
Did SGC miss the paper loss? sportscardpete Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 10-20-2012 11:28 PM
PSA 5 with paper loss? Runscott Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 52 01-05-2012 06:34 PM
Loss of Gloss on Worch Cigar PCs Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 02-22-2009 11:54 PM
paper loss Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 13 01-30-2006 02:09 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:07 AM.


ebay GSB