E102, 1908 or 1909?

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I am loading lots in the latest Sterling auction and was loading some E102s. Some say 1908 and some say 1909. I was doing a little research and found the same thing. Is there a definitive year for the set?

Lee

[Rhotchkiss]

I am not sure, but I think 1909. People used to call the e102 Cobb his rookie bc people thought it was issued in 1908 (would be his first “card”). But it’s no longer considered his rookie card, and I think it’s bc it has been determined the set is from 1909 (maybe even later)

I know that doesn’t exactly answer your question!!

[Leon]

1909

[Baseball Rarities]

I agree with Ryan and Leon. The earliest that it was issued is 1909 and maybe even after. Germany Schaefer is pictured with the Washington Senators and he was not traded to them until August of 1909.

[brianp-beme]

Here is a link to a previous E102 thread, which has a link (oy vey indeed) to another thread that discusses this subject:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...highlight=e102

And in this above linked thread I posted a summary of what was discussed in the other linked thread, and I suggest an even more likely issue year (my words in italics, because that is how special they are):


Kevin in the previously linked post by DJ (post #5 within that link) pretty much clarifies that E102's were not a 1908 issue, but instead the earliest these cards were produced was August of 1909 because of Germany Schaeffer being traded to the Senators (the team he is identified on card) on August 9th, 1909, as well as David Shean being traded to Boston NL team on July 16th of 1909. Also, 1909 was the first year Dots Miller was in the MLB (with the Pirates), and it seems unlikely that he would have been included right from the get go in his rookie year. So to me the likely release year is 1910.


Brian

[FrankWakefield]

Ryan, Leon, and Mr. Lipset... those guys are right about a lot of old ball card stuff. Mr. Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards Vol 2 does not designate a year on page 22 of the E102 listing.

Our childhood ball card collecting taints our thinking about the dating of old cards; eg, because the 1967 Topps cards came out in series starting in the spring of 1967 and finishing in September or thereabouts, we think that ball card issues were tied to seasons. Yet when we step back and think about it, we have no reason to think that those candy cards were printed at the beginning of a particular season.

Minor League baseball seemed to explode and expand, Americans were flocking to ball games. And cigarette and candy companies were sticking ball cards in their products. When did T206 cards hit the streets? I think advertising for them was in September of 1909; that's not at the beginning of a season! I figure the E cards were appearing about then, too. Maybe a month sooner, or later.

All of those confusing E cards (and I'm not talking E90-1s)... E92, E101, E93-94-97-98, E95 and E96... E102 is a bit of a cousin to E92 and E91. Nadja cards were in Nadja candy products, Philadelphia Caramel cards were in Philadelphia Caramel products... what were E102's for? Lord knows. I figure it was for smaller candy companies that wanted some cards for inserts, but didn't want a card that had some other candy company's name on it. I think E102's began arriving in the fall of 1909. They may have continued and spilled over into early 1910. Brian may have something with his 1910 thinking, but I'm still thinking it's 1909. Had it been a named, widely distributed candy product with the company name on the back, a date may be fine tuned one day. Bur for 'anonymous' cards that would have appeared in products from small companies scattered across the nation it's gonna be difficult to pin a specific date down.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Ryan, Leon, and Mr. Lipset... those guys are right about a lot of old ball card stuff. Mr. Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards Vol 2 does not designate a year on page 22 of the E102 listing.

Our childhood ball card collecting taints our thinking about the dating of old cards; eg, because the 1967 Topps cards came out in series starting in the spring of 1967 and finishing in September or thereabouts, we think that ball card issues were tied to seasons. Yet when we step back and think about it, we have no reason to think that those candy cards were printed at the beginning of a particular season.

Minor League baseball seemed to explode and expand, Americans were flocking to ball games. And cigarette and candy companies were sticking ball cards in their products. When did T206 cards hit the streets? I think advertising for them was in September of 1909; that's not at the beginning of a season! I figure the E cards were appearing about then, too. Maybe a month sooner, or later.

All of those confusing E cards (and I'm not talking E90-1s)... E92, E101, E93-94-97-98, E95 and E96... E102 is a bit of a cousin to E92 and E91. Nadja cards were in Nadja candy products, Philadelphia Caramel cards were in Philadelphia Caramel products... what were E102's for? Lord knows. I figure it was for smaller candy companies that wanted some cards for inserts, but didn't want a card that had some other candy company's name on it. I think E102's began arriving in the fall of 1909. They may have continued and spilled over into early 1910. Brian may have something with his 1910 thinking, but I'm still thinking it's 1909. Had it been a named, widely distributed candy product with the company name on the back, a date may be fine tuned one day. Bur for 'anonymous' cards that would have appeared in products from small companies scattered across the nation it's gonna be difficult to pin a specific date down.

Solid point Frank, I appreciate the anon sets for their mystery.

[G1911]

Late 1909 at the earliest, no real significant basis for saying 1909 over 1910 or vice versa that I have ever found. Most of the old sets have been dated by people completely making things up instead of via research made publicly available for review.

[brianp-beme]

After my previous post I checked the SABR profile of Dots Miller. He was brought up when Honus Wagner was late to report to the 1909 spring training, and impressed his manager and teammates enough with his fielding that his teammates began referring to him as "Hans" and "Hans No. 2". When Wagner eventually reported to spring training, a reporter asked Honus "Whose the kid?" Honus responded "That's Miller", which the reporter interpreted as 'Dots' Miller. And so a nickname was born.

With this little biographical insight, in my mind I can see how he quickly became an important part of the team, moving over to 2nd base and playing well and in most of the Pirates games, and thus an inclusion to the E102 set at the end of the 1909 baseball season becomes a very reasonable possibility.

Brian