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View Poll Results: Do Roger Maris or Albert Belle belong in the HOF? | |||
Maris only | 82 | 28.47% | |
Belle only | 44 | 15.28% | |
Both | 33 | 11.46% | |
Neither | 129 | 44.79% | |
Voters: 288. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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Maybe in the New York area. The 1961 season was 58 years ago. Unless someone is ~65 they weren't old enough to remember to chase. Most people in the West, South or Midwest have no idea who he is. |
#2
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An Alternative?
Could the HOF maybe have a wing for "Hall of Fame Achievements"? Something to honor players who did something(s) great but did not have an otherwise HOF-worthy career?
Maris' 61 homers comes to mind. Vander Meer's back-to-back No Hitters might qualify. Dunno, just a thought.... |
#3
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I suppose it depends on whether it's a hall of fame, or a hall of stats. Both often go together, but sometimes they diverge.
If it's a hall of fame, maybe both should be in. If it's a hall of stats, maybe not. As it is, it's a hall of stats over time, with a popularity poll at the end. |
#4
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Seems we're moving more towards a Hall of (Advanced) Stats. |
#5
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Really?
Are you nuts? Even in Wisconsin, back in 1961 we had newspapers, magazines, and radio's.
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Rick McQuillan T213-2 139 down 46 to go. |
#6
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Did you even bother to read what I wrote? If someone wasn't alive in 1961 or old enough to read the paper or remember, how would they know what it was like? In our neighborhood Maris cards were commons, sorry.
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#7
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IF Roger Maris had played for a bad team in 1961 and NOT the Yankees would we even be HAVING this discussion??
Maris is NOT a Hall of Famer and the only reason for his fame is because he was a Yankee. David |
#8
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Who else did that? I think a guy named Roger Maris. Last edited by packs; 03-08-2019 at 11:06 AM. |
#9
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I kinda doubt he hits 61 without that guy who hit 4th behind him -- now what was his name -- Mickey something.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#10
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Albert Belle + Steroids + Corked Bat = No HOF
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#11
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There it is. What would Maris' numbers look like without Mantle protecting him? Outside of those 2-3 years they weren't very good and even those 3 years he hit .283 (career high), .269, .256. His best career numbers are Slugging%-223rd all time and OPS+ 220th all time.
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#12
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So if he played for the Tigers and led the team to 3 straight ws, winning back to back mvps and hit 61 hr breaking Babe’s record... yes we would.
I also say that Murphy belongs... who was the best player in baseball in the early 80s with back to back mvps for a terrible team. |
#13
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Are you serious? I don't understand how anyone who was alive in 1998 can possibly say something like that. Maris was the most famous name in all of sports during the most famous chase in all of sports at a time when baseball was at it's inflated height. I think you would have been hard pressed to find a person in the country who didn't know his name. |
#14
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#15
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My recollection of Albert belle was that he was a foul-tempered, cantankerous and lazy baseball player who wasted a lot of his talent. The HOF does not usually take in characters like that.....
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"Baseball Bob" Successful transactions with ecRich, HTBB, MPeich, Pencil1974, JLoewke, Darkhorse9, Therajah, eb548, Cards 2121, etc. |
#16
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Why do people keep bringing up 1961 as a baseline for knowing who Maris is? Did everyone forget McGwire and Sosa's chase? Who were they chasing? How about Bonds' pursuit in 2001? That was only 18 years ago.
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#17
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When I think of Albert Belle, I think of this play:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV3fNK31HD4 By the way, I voted "no" for both, although some of the arguments for inclusion of Maris are warranted. Interestingly, just because someone doesn't make the HOF doesn't mean that they aren't a major part of the HOF (Cooperstown). There's all sorts of equipment and other references to non-HOFers at Cooperstown, like Maris and Rose. I don't recall seeing any Joey Belle "stuff" there at Cooperstown. Feared, yes (see video). HOF, not so much. I'd stick Dale Murphy in the Hall well before Joey "Albert" Belle.
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... http://imageevent.com/derekgranger HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 244/342 (71.4%) 1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 114/119 (95.8%) 1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 177/180 (98.3%) Last edited by h2oya311; 03-08-2019 at 08:49 AM. |
#18
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-08-2019 at 11:51 AM. |
#19
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#20
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Belle over boring Maris.
All day, every day. |
#21
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Surpassing Babe Ruth's coveted home run record while the captivated baseball world held it's breath... you can't get any more boring than that.
While Belle was consistent throughout his career... what was exciting about it? When he was caught cheating with a corked bat in 1994? Last edited by Huysmans; 03-18-2019 at 07:03 AM. |
#22
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Maris
I was 5 years old growing up in Detroit when Roger broke Babe's record. None of the adults around me wanted Roger to break the record. I can remember laying in front of our Emerson black and white TV and seeing the scroll across the bottom of the screen announcing Roger's 56th homer, his 57th 58th etc.. as he hit them. Even though most people were against him, he did it anyway. He became a hero to me because he did it anyway. I don't think anybody was ever in a zone like he was that year. I read an article where Norm Cash said that his 1961 season was like no other. He said that everything he hit just seemed to drop in. Don't care about the Hall of Fame. Roger had one of the great years in baseball, surpassing a bigger than life legend. Just a working guy who swung the bat like nothing anybody had ever seen. 159 hits - 61 were home runs. Incredible.
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#23
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-18-2019 at 12:44 PM. |
#24
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My 2 cents, Maris`s argument reminds me somewhat of the Joe Namath one. Both players had some great years but overall, their career numbers didn`t make them automatic. However, both players had single historical moments that transcended their respective sports. Maris for historical "61" season and of course Joe and his Jets forever changing the NFL/AFL landscape defeating the Colts in the Super Bowl. For me, they are both Hall Of Fame Locks !
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H Murphy Collection https://www.flickr.com/photos/154296763@N05/ |
#25
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I have a feeling that most people know who Sam Harris is, given how frequently he's mentioned within my social group, but I also know that feeling is stupid and comes from a false consensus bias and that in reality there's no way even 10% of people know who he is. Baseball fans will feel the same about Roger Maris, Hank Greenberg, et al., but again, no way even 10% of people know who these guys are. In fact, no way even 10% of people know who Walter Johnson was, and he was the greatest pitcher in MLB history. There are several times as many people who don't know who Donald Trump is (and he's likely the most famous person in the world at the moment) as who do know who Roger Maris was. |
#26
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Neither are even close. Maris is not a hall of famer in any regard. He was a quiet decent and hardworking man who was elevated to something he was not because of two good seasons. Look at his numbers, he hit 260 with 1325 hits. He did not have a career where he was somehow blocked by circumstances. He was a regular when he was 22 and he retired at 33 after hitting around 250 with less then 13 homer per year for his last 4 years. If you look at his similarity scores per age he was Reggie Jackson for three years, but in his other years he was Larry Hisle, Pete incavigila, Jessie Barfield and Coby Rasmus.
There are a ton a guys who had two great years- Rubin Sierra, Jose Cansevo, George foster, dale murphy, Mickey Vernon, al Rosen, Denny McClain, etc who have career numbers as good as or better then Maris who are not even talked about for the hall He should be applauded for 61 but not be elevated to the hall |
#27
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Belle to me is borderline with a short career. Maris is such a pull either way - clearly (along with Gil Hodges) one of the single most popular players who has not been enshrined yet. He did win 2 MVP's, but the arguments for the short peak are valid. I do buy into some of the "did a lot for baseball" arguments. Yes, the vote is as a player, but what are some of those long-forgotten execs enshrined for if not for "what they did for the game"? As a kid even in the 1980's when I first started collecting cards, Maris was extremely well known - way before the summer of '98 drama. Yes, it's for one event - but that one event was the single most cherished record in the entire history of the game. One that has since been tarnished I might add by all the things that have since come out about McGwire and Bonds. I think there are exceptions, and really it would not bother me if Roger gets elected one day.
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Vintage Cubs. Postwar stars & HOF'ers. |
#28
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Agree
Maris as a hofer is nonsense.
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#29
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And people in the West, South or Midwest certainly knew who Maris was in 1961... unless they lived under a rock. You can also add that most players with little fame do not have movies made after them. |
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