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#1
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This is the T215-1 checklist I have and some additional information for the discussion.
1 Ames New York Nat'l 2 Baker Philadelphia Amer. 3 Ball Cleveland 4 Bender (w/ Trees) Philadelphia Amer. 5 Bender (No Trees) Philadelphia Amer. 6 Bridwell Boston Nat'l 7 Byrne Pittsburgh 8 Camnitz Pittsburgh 9 Chance Chicago Nat'l 10 Chase New York Amer. 11 Cobb Detroit 12 Collins Philadelphia Amer. 13 Conroy Washington 14 Crandall New York Nat'l 15 Crawford Detroit 16 Cree New York Amer. 17 Davis Cleveland 18 Devore New York Nat'l 19 Donlin Pittsburgh 20 Doolan (Batting) Philadelphia Nat'l 21 Doolan (Fielding) Philadelphia Nat'l 22 Dougherty Chicago Amer. 23 Doyle (w/ Bat) New York Nat'l 24 Doyle (Portrait) New York Nat'l 25 Elberfeld Washington 26 Ford New York Amer. 27 Fromme Cincinnati 28 Griffith Washington 29 Hartsel Toledo 30 Hoblitzell Cincinnati 31 Hofman Chicago Nat'l 32 Howard Chicago Nat'l 33 Huggins (Portrait) St. Louis Nat'l 34 Huggins (Hands at Mouth) Cincinnati 35 Hummel Brooklyn 36 Jennings (One Hand) Detroit 37 Jennings (Two Hand) Detroit 38 Johnson Washington 39 Konetchy St. Louis Nat'l 40 Krause Philadelphia Amer. 41 Lajoie Cleveland 42 Lake St. Louis Amer. 43 Latham New York Nat'l 44 Leach Pittsburgh 45 Leifield Pittsburgh 46 Lord Chicago Amer. 47 Magee Philadelphia Nat'l 48 Manning New York Nat'l 49 Marquard (Portrait) New York Nat'l 50 Marquard (Pitching) New York Nat'l 51 Mathewson (Dark Cap) New York Nat'l 52 Mathewson (White Cap) New York Nat'l 53 McGinnity Newark 54 McGraw (Portrait w/ Cap) New York Nat'l 55 McGraw (Glove at Hip) New York Nat'l 56 McIntyre Chicago Nat'l 57 Merkle New York Nat'l 58 Meyers New York Nat'l 59 Miller Pittsburgh 60 Mowery St. Louis Nat'l 61 Murphy Philadelphia Amer. 62 Murray New York Nat'l 63 Oakes St. Louis Nat'l 64 O'Leary Detroit 65 Paskert Philadelphia Nat'l 66 Pelty St. Louis Amer. 67 Quinn New York Amer. 68 Reulbach Chicago Nat'l 69 Rucker Brooklyn 70 Schaefer Washington 71 Schulte Chicago Nat'l 72 Sheckard Chicago Nat'l 73 Smith Cincinnati 74 Smither (sic) Montreal 75 Speaker Boston Amer. 76 Stahl Boston Amer. 77 Steinfeldt St. Louis Nat'l 78 Street (Portrait) New York Amer. 79 Street (Catching) New York Amer. 80 Sweeney New York Amer. 81 Tannehill Chicago Amer. 82 Tinker (Bat on Shoulder) Chicago Nat'l 83 Tinker (Bat off Shoulder) Chicago Nat'l 84 Wagner Boston Amer. 85 Warhop New York Amer. 86 Wheat Brooklyn 87 White Chicago Amer. 88 Willetts Detroit 89 Wilson Pittsburgh 90 Wiltse (Portrait w/ Cap) New York Nat'l 91 Wiltse (Pitching) New York Nat'l 92 Young Boston Nat'l I didn't check the entire list in the OP yet, but I did notice Chance should be the bat off pose, not yellow portrait. This is additional player information to add to what is in the OP that is important to dating the set. Bridwell-Boston Nat’l---July 22, 1911 Traded by New York to Boston Nat’l Davis-Cleveland---October 1911 named Cleveland manager Paskert-Philadelphia Nat’l---November 12, 1910 Traded to Philadelphia Nat’l Street-NY Amer---February 17, 1912 Traded to New York from Washington Young-Boston Nat’l---Signed contract with Boston Nat'l Feb 1, 1912 - retired May 24, 1912 Every subjects team designation in the T215-1 set is where they were in the first few months of 1912 with the exception of two. The two are Howard-Chicago Nat'l and Manning-New York Nat'l. Howard did not play for Chicago after 1909 and Manning did not play for New York after 1910. There are players that have no statistics with their designated team in 1912 but were with them at the beginning of the year. Conroy-Washington---Retired/Cut prior to the season in March 1912 Dougherty-Chicago Amer---Retired in late February 1912 prior to the season. Elberfeld-Washington---Retired/Cut prior to the season in March 1912 I'll add more regarding the Pirate set later. Last edited by Abravefan11; 12-12-2012 at 03:35 PM. |
#2
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Great stuff guys.
Tim, I'm always interested in what you have to say; keep posting I was wondering about Smither (sic) Montreal last night as I was reading this thread and looking at the checklists in Lipset's Volume 3, as I didn't see it on Ted's list. I'm hesitant to bring these things up, as I don't want to come across as "confrontational". Unfortunately, sometimes my posts read that way when they aren't. Great thread, love the information !!! Sincerely, Clayton |
#3
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Smith began the 1912 season with Cincinnati and was sold to Montreal in June.
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Quote:
Sincerely, Clayton |
#5
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Here are some key cards that show the differences between the T215-1 RC and Pirate sets.
This group shows subjects that were printed with Red Cross and then later updated for the Pirate set. Neal Ball In the RC set his team designation is Cleveland and in the Pirate set it’s Boston American. Ball was purchased by Boston from Cleveland June 25, 1912. Solly Hofman In the RC set his team designation is Chicago Nat’l and in the Pirate set it’s Pittsburgh. Hofman was traded to Pittsburgh from Chicago on May 30, 1912. Harry Krause In the RC set his team designation is Philadelphia Amer. and in the Pirate set it’s Cleveland. Krause was sold from Philadelphia to Cleveland in July 1912. Lefty Leifield In the RC set his team designation is Pittsburgh and in the Pirate set it’s Chicago Nat’l. Leifield was traded from Pittsburgh to Chicago May 30, 1912. Barney Pelty In the RC set his team designation is St. Louis Amer. And in the Pirate set it’s Washington. Pelty was sold by St. Louis to Washington June 11, 1912. This group is the opposite of the one above. The Pirate team designations reflect where the subject played prior to where they played on the Red Cross designation. Harry Lord In the RC set his team designation is Chicago Amer. and in the Pirate set it’s Boston Amer. Lord was traded from Boston to Chicago August 9, 1910. Topsy Hartsel In the RC set his team designation is Toledo and in the Pirate set it’s Philadelphia Amer. Hartsel played for Philadelphia in 1911 and managed Toledo in 1912. Harry Steinfeldt In the RC set his team designation is St. Louis Nat’l and in the Pirate set it’s Chicago Nat’l. Steinfeldt played for Cubs in 1911 and was purchased by St. Paul in June of that year. He was signed by St. Louis in March 1912. Gabby Street In the RC set his team designation is NY Nat’l and in the Pirate set it’s Washington. Street was traded by Washington to New York February 17, 1912. |
#6
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One other subject that is important to the Pirate set is Bobby Byrne. There are two variations of this card. One with a Pittsburgh team caption and the other with a St. Louis team caption. Byrne was traded from St. Louis to Pittsburgh in August 1909. The early Pirate printing appears to be a reuse of the T206 images exactly as they were. The later Pirate printing appears to have been updated to where players were the second half of 1912.
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#7
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Comparison of checklists for T215-1 RED CROSS set vs "PIRATE" set
Quote:
You are waffling....a week ago (per above quote), you stated that all the RED CROSS cards were produced in a single printing. So, what makes you agree with what most of us veteran collectors have always known ? That the evidence clearly indicates that there was a 1910 printing, followed by a Spring 1912 printing of the T215-1 cards ? You reminds us of a Massachusetts politician who first voted against a bill, then voted for it Whatever, it surely is appreciated the team change info that you have provided. It was the reason that motivated me to start this thread. But, I have a question....have all these team changes been confirmed on actual cards, or are some hearsay ? Furthermore, it is my understanding that a total of 96 subjects were printed and issued in the RED CROSS set. Your list is missing 4 subjects. Any of the following are possible candidates........ Evans Evers Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago NL) Matty McIntyre (Detroit) Mitchell Summers Thomas TED Z Last edited by tedzan; 12-03-2012 at 12:52 PM. |
#8
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Quote:
I reiterate my question from my previous post...."But, I have a question....have all these team changes been confirmed on actual cards, or are some hearsay ? I ask you this, because I have seen RED CROSS Bobby Byrne with a St Louis NL caption. But, your list says Pittsburg....something is not jiving here. TED Z |
#9
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