SMR Article: 1953-55 Stahl-Meyer Sets

[Kevin Glew]

Hi everyone,

Hope you are well.

I'm writing an article for SMR about the 1953 to 1955 Stahl-Meyer Franks sets.

I was wondering if there was anyone out there who has any information about how these cards were originally distributed. I've heard they were distributed in both packages of franks and at the New York ballparks. I'm also interested in finding out:

1. How exactly were the cards packaged with the franks? Right on top of them?
2. Did these cards have wax coating on them?
3. Were these cards distributed in the same manner every year (e.g. were they distributed in packages with franks and at ballparks every year?)
4. Were the production numbers approximately the same each year? Or were fewer printed of a certain year?
5. Why is Mays only in the 1954 set?
6. Why did these sets not include Jackie Robinson, Pee Wee Reese, Whitey Ford or Yogi Berra?
7. Has anyone ever seen the Johnny Stahl-Meyer kit that was available as a promo listed on the 1954 cards?

Sorry for all the questions, but I thought I would throw them all out there.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Sincerely,

Kevin Glew

[Zach Wheat]

Kevin,

I have always found this set interesting. Here is some of the old information I had saved on the set from an old Net54 Post back in 2009 or 2010. In fact, here is the link:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...l-Meyer+Franks

Good luck and keep us posted on how the article turns out. Sounds like fun.



Zach Wheat

[Kevin Glew]

Thanks very much for sharing this, Zach.

[toppcat]

There are 1950's ballpark photos I have seen that have Stahl-Mayer advertisements prominently shown. I believe the Polo Grouinds had a major one. Not sure if this is germane but it does tie the franks to the ballparks.

[brian1961]

Dear Kevin,

Normally I would like to help you, but I am in the process of having my book on postwar regionals published. Spending 5 years as I did writing and editing it, I would much prefer that I opt out to help you for the time being, until NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN is finally published. Then you'd sure be welcome to quote it, providing you find something usable. With 50+ years off and on in the hobby collecting many of these cards, including Stahl-Meyer, and gathering any research I could lay my hands on, I would like to think the hobby could use such a book.

Most of the guys here major in prewar, as you know, but since WWII is approaching its 75th infamous anniversary, eras taking place after the war are beginning to seem long, long ago.

I wish you the very best Kevin, regardless. One thing that I would love for you to hunt for that I failed to find is this: Rob Lifson spoke of seeing a Sunday Funnies advertisement for the Stahl-Meyer cards from a major New York City newspaper. Sadly, he could not recall who owned it. That little item might just unlock even more of the mystery of these great cards than what I was able, by the grace of God, to find. I checked several reels of microfilm from 1953 but came up empty. Tough on the eyes!

That's the kind of piece that needs to be shared with the hobby community, and not locked up in a drawer for nobody to see 'cept the owner. He might just die and the old ad be thrown away afterwards.

Lord willing, this will be the year my book is published. By the way, the cover photograph is smashing, but the three cards are SGC-graded. I approached PSA first, and they turned me down on two of them, so ......... Fortunately for all concerned, there's a healthy mix of graded cards from both firms.

Again, wishing you the very best. ----Brian Powell

[Kevin Glew]

Originally Posted by toppcat

There are 1950's ballpark photos I have seen that have Stahl-Mayer advertisements prominently shown. I believe the Polo Grouinds had a major one. Not sure if this is germane but it does tie them franks to the ballparks.

Thanks very much for this, Dave.

[Kevin Glew]

Thanks very much for your kind response, Brian.

I totally understand. I actually contacted Sports Collectors Digest hoping to purchase your book, but they told me it hasn't been published yet. I will be the first in line to buy it when it's released.

Thanks for all your research efforts.

Sincerely,

Kevin Glew

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Brian do you have a publication date?

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Dear Kevin,

Normally I would like to help you, but I am in the process of having my book on postwar regionals published. Spending 5 years as I did writing and editing it, I would much prefer that I opt out to help you for the time being, until NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN is finally published. Then you'd sure be welcome to quote it, providing you find something usable. With 50+ years off and on in the hobby collecting many of these cards, including Stahl-Meyer, and gathering any research I could lay my hands on, I would like to think the hobby could use such a book.

Most of the guys here major in prewar, as you know, but since WWII is approaching its 75th infamous anniversary, eras taking place after the war are beginning to seem long, long ago.

I wish you the very best Kevin, regardless. One thing that I would love for you to hunt for that I failed to find is this: Rob Lifson spoke of seeing a Sunday Funnies advertisement for the Stahl-Meyer cards from a major New York City newspaper. Sadly, he could not recall who owned it. That little item might just unlock even more of the mystery of these great cards than I was able to, by the grace of God. I checked several reels of microfilm from 1953 but came up empty. Tough on the eyes!

That's the kind of piece that needs to be shared with the hobby community, and not locked up in a drawer for nobody to see 'cept the owner. He might just die and the old ad be thrown away afterwards.

Lord willing, this will be the year my book is published. By the way, the cover photograph is smashing, but the three cards are SGC-graded. I approached PSA first, and they turned me down on two of them, so ......... Fortunately for all concerned, there's a healthy mix of graded cards from both firms.

Again, wishing you the very best. ----Brian Powell

Do you talk about Kahns, Bazookas and Sugardales in the book?


Have you ever seen a 1960 complete Bazooka box with Clemente?

[brian1961]

Kevin------Thank you for your kind support and understanding. See if the owner of the one set listed on the PSA Set Registry will allow you to interview him. His Stahl-Meyer set is virtually impossible to match. Better yet, if you feel so inclined, work on another feature and perhaps NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN will have been published. I honestly believe you would find it most useful in preparing an article. Furthermore, thanks ever so much for wanting to write a piece regarding some of the toughest pieces to find in graded EXCELLENT or better.

Mike------no future publication date. Tom Bartsch just submitted NEVER to the publisher early last month. The wheels of progress move slowly, as the saying goes. I just hope they're interested in publishing it, and put as little red tape in front of it as possible. No one is slammed; it's a hobby celebration concerning a wonderful niche of postwar card collecting.

Howard----I'm afraid I have to disappoint you on the choices you inquired about. Nothing on Kahn's and Sugerdales. I wanted to do a chapter on Kahn's, but I ran out of time and space. My book was already quite long enough. I had a beautiful story to include with a Kahn's chapter, and a prime source in the form of someone who owns all of pioneer collector Buck Barker's many correspondences with the Kahn's company. I never owned Sugardales. One of our members here, Jim Manos, is very, very big on Sugardales. I don't have his contact info available though, and I'm sorry.

However, chapter 18 has some coverage on Bazookas. When I say "some", I must emphasize that my book is not exhaustive in regard to regionals. If it were, the length and price would be extremely prohibitive. In a previous thread response, I told you I've never seen a 60 Clemente box, and put you on the trace to contact Mr. Irv Lerner. Remember?

As I like to phrase it, my book is a fine sampling of regionals. However, I have reasonably good taste, and made succulent choices for the book chapters. Frankly, I needed good firsthand, and in some instances, reliable secondhand stories to base each chapter. In having much personal experience collecting most of these items, some in their year of issue, I could bring to the reader something worth knowing. However, many of the stories that other individuals shared with me are simply off the charts--the finds responsible for supplying the hobby with virtually ALL the high-grade 1960 HOME RUN DERBY cards, STAHL-MEYERS, and DAN-DEE Cleveland Indians. Other finds are discussed, of course. I better stop.

Sadly, I had numerous people refuse to help me, essentially unwilling to divulge what they knew and keep it to themselves. I interpreted their refusal at least in part because they were still active in collecting these babies and did not want any more competition! Really, most understandable, but frustrating when trying to research a book. Think about it.

[Rich Klein]

I went through that all the time at Beckett

Trust me, I did

Rich

[brian1961]

Thanks most sincerely, Rich. Empathy from someone as esteemed as yourself is much appreciated.

No doubt the one principal reason so few "filet mignon" books have been written about vintage cards goes back to this very integral problem of collector oysters that keep their pearls of wisdom, riveting sea stories, and technical knowledge SHUT UP TIGHT. Then hobbyists wonder by the hobby has gradually receded. The strike of '94 played its part, true, but vintage baseball card collecting interest was already waning amid grading corruption and outright fraud and deceit. Sports history books helped ignite the fire of future hobbyists. After all, SABR (Society of American Baseball Research) was founded by a healthy inclusion of baseball card collectors! Be that as it may, sometimes you want to know the history behind the sets, what it was like to collect them (sure, to a point, it is duh-ee, just as we have always collected!) Yet, especially with the regionals, there was built-in scarcity. The problems and seemingly insurmountable vicissitudes a kid would encounter in collecting them at the time have not really been articulated and thus appreciated by collectors. Another reason for so few indepth collecting books is the amount of time and effort required to research and write one. We don't even see that many great articles, much less books. OK, verbosity erupting again. I'll stop.

Would someone please get a hold of Kevin Glew for me? If his boss definitely wants a Stahl-Meyer article ASAP, I believe I can supply him with some mouth-watering info not in my book regarding the very underrated and exceedingly valuable 1 of 1 1954 PSA 9 Stahlie of Willie Mays. I'd be most happy to help. Tell him to email me at bfpowell2003@yahoo.com.

[Rich Klein]

Contact Joe Orlando -- he loves writers and perhaps the way your book gets published is one SMR story at a time. Do a quick search and you should find his email address otherwise email me and I'll get this for you.

Faiiling that, you can always try my editor Rich Mueller at editor@sportscollectorsdaily.com

Either way, there is always ways to get published, may not be for a lot of money -- but you can get your word out.

Rich

[brian1961]

Thanks for all the advice, Rich.

As I mentioned somewhere along the line, I contacted PSA first to grade the three cards included in the cover photo. At the time (Summer 2008), they did not grade 1960 Post Cereal. They would not grade my 1962 complete JELL-O box. Though they graded Stahl-Meyers, I would have to let them take the card back with them to Long Beach, since they did not grade over-sized cards at the National. I was a bit discouraged about the whole thing. Instead of just ditching the idea, I endeavored to take all three of the cards to the National at Chicago and see what SGC would do. After a bit of friendly persuasion and pleading, SGC was willing to take a stab at all of them.

Viola. Expensive though it was, the cards did look ever more spectacular in their graded card holders. The people at SGC were pretty friendly, and gave me the impression that customer service was important to them.

Thus, Joe Orlando would not be particularly enthusiastic about the three cards on my book cover, which all carry SGC certs. As I said, I tried PSA first................

However, there are other chapters whose subjects were photographed wearing a resplendent PSA holder. Who knows? In trying to represent both major vintage grading firms, I will displease both of them because their respective "mortal" enemy is well represented.

I still am praying and have confidence NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN will be welcomed by many postwar collectors. Rich Mueller, your colleague at Sports Collectors Daily, certainly seemed to think so. My editor, SCD's Tom Bartsch, sent him Chapter 2, "The Giant Sequoia Mantle -- 1960 Post Grape Nuts Flakes". From his email back to me, he really seemed to enjoy it. In actuality, chapters one and two appeared in Sports Collectors Digest several years ago when I was just getting started. They liked it enough to debut it in their 2009 National Convention issue. I was really touched.

Well, the publisher is to be contacted this week. Perhaps I will have some news, hopefully on the good side.

Rich, thanks ever so much again for your kind interest. Have a happy week. --Brian Powell

[dstudeba]

I have never heard anything about them being distributed at ballparks, I would be interested to hear evidence about that. There are plenty of cards that have hot dog stains on them pointing to them being packaged in direct contact with the hot dogs.

Brian - In your book do you cover Briggs, Esskays, Hunters, Felins, or Wilson Franks?

[brian1961]

Hi Dan, good to hear from you.

Yes, I was able to uncover some evidence, though some was secondhand but I believed to be trustworthy and substantiated by an old Dodger fan I encountered on Baseball-fever.com. We emailed back and forth, and he confirmed the Stahl-Meyers were distributed at the New York ballparks. That was a triumphant breakthrough in my research on the Stahlies. This, of course, was in addition to their main thrust of acquisition---thrust between two rows of wet, greasy hot dogs. Though some of the cards were placed outside the rows of dogs, they were still in direct contact with the meat. The stains of the frankfurters bear witness to their typical condition.

As for the sets you mentioned, all of them are discussed, though some more than others. I only had so much time, and less money, to put into the research and writing of the book. Again, my approach was to offer a fine selection from the postwar regionals. Exhaustive it is not, but I know there is a sumptuous feast for those who relish these babies.

Since I seem to recall you really like this great player, I do want to convey to you an occurrence that happened to me while attending my first major convention, the big Detroit show of 1972. A pioneer collector brought his album of Stahl-Meyers to probably show some of his fellow pioneers whom he had corresponded with for years, and was meeting for the very first time. I caught glimpse of the album in passing by, then waited for the opportunity to politely ask if I could look at his album. The collector was by profession a college professor, and perhaps because of my good manners and studious attitude, he graciously allowed me the privilege of viewing his collection of Stahl-Meyers. So, I sat down in a chair close by. I don't know if he kept a close watch on me, but my eyes were riveted to the appearance of those lovely cards.

Never had I seen such baseball cards. Never had I heard of them. They were positively gorgeous. The word "breathtaking" is sometimes used to described cards we particularly admire. Breathtaking fit these beauties to a T. I believe the gentleman kept his Mantles at home. I would have remembered them had they been in the album. At this point in time, I didn't know Mickey was included in these sets. He was probably wise not to do so.

Regardless, the card that absolutely, positively mesmerized me was that of Roy Campanella, a player we both dearly love. I just stared and stared, burning Roy's image into my memory. I did not want to take my eyes off it. The tinting rendered by the printer was magnificent. I loved it. Boy, did I love it. Thus was born my love affair with the Stahl-Meyers.

Take care Dan. Wishing you the very best in your collecting pursuits, and otherwise. ----Brian Powell