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#1
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: warshawlaw
I don't understand sellers who cheat their customers. Why bother, especially over the (relatively) small value items we deal with (Leon excepted, of course, from the value limitations, since we all know his cards stay in the Presidential Suite when he visits the National). |
#2
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: Bruce Moreland
I don't agree with your complaint technique. I think that the way to do it is to say what happened and explain what you would like. |
#3
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: Jeff Obermeyer
I've got to agree with Bruce here. If the seller does have solid feedback you really should give them the benefit of the doubt before you threaten to do a whole bunch of other stuff. If, after reading your initial polite email, the seller refuses to comply, then you can always let them know what's in store. |
#4
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Jeff & Bruce -- |
#5
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Threatening negative feedback is not a good idea. EBay strongly discourages this type of behavior, and rightly so -- feedback "blackmail" or extortion is also listed by Safeharbor as a legitimate reason to have negative feedback removed. I would rethink this part of your strategy. |
#6
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: Jeff Obermeyer
Gee, I didn't know that an opinion could be "wrong". |
#7
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Jeff -- |
#8
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: warshawlaw
feedback blackmail is "if you don't give me good feedback I will give you bad feedback." What I have stated I will do is precisely what ebay allegedly wants you to do, which is attempt to resolve problems up front informally before using feedback, but make clear that you will use the feedback mechanism to deliver a truthful negative report to ebay users if there is a problem. |
#9
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: Jeff Obermeyer
This will be my last comment on this issue... I don't want to bore you all with some semantic debate by myself and MW. |
#10
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
I think Adam's idea is a very good one. Forming a consumer union which endorses a specified code of conduct is something this hobby requires. The proliferation of fake, forged and reprinted crap -- especially on the Internet -- clearly warrants some type of review or regulation. |
#11
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Feedback extortion as defined by eBay/Safeharbor: |
#12
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: warshawlaw
While you definitely get more flies with sugar than vinegar, when there's a pile of dog poop there already, there are enough flies around as it is. |
#13
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: warshawlaw
I don't give a damn what an out of context ebay quotation says: A seller has to make good on fraudulent transactions under the consumer protection laws in every state. If following the law is not something that a seller has to do, then ebay rules are "a ass". |
#14
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Adam -- |
#15
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: Bruce Moreland
I don't understand MW's reaction. Someone sends you garbage. How do you deal with this? |
#16
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: Bruce Moreland
I still don't see why you think that: |
#17
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: leon
First of all Adam, I don't keep my cards in a safe when at the Nationals. Last year they were on my back in my 5 year old's napsack. I think I was pretty cool (in a dorky way) having them in a preschoolers bag. Me, a 40 year old, balding guy, cruising around with some relatively expensive cards on his back.....showing them to whomever would look Back to the subject. I will agree with the other folks that I would probably not get to the point of threatening before I asked politely first. Nothing good can come out of it. It seems that almost everyday I am about to blast someone and then I rethink it and don't do it. So far 100% of the time I am glad I did not do it...after looking back on it. Same story happened to me with a Verkman card. I got a detailed description, over the phone, of the card from one of his workers. Satisfied with the card I said I would take it. I got the card and almost fell out of my chair when I saw it. I looked at the bottom of it and got seasick it was so trimmed. THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY ANY INTELLIGENT HOBBYIST COULD HAVE THOUGHT OTHERWISE. NO WAY !! It was that bad. I called them and they said "hang on a second"....they pulled the rest of the cards from that lot (I believe bought a few Lipset auctions ago and advertised as trimmed) and said they were ALL trimmed. But the point here is that I asked politely and got my money back with no hassle. Now everytime I get one of their catalogues I look through it and immediatley throw it away......good luck on this one Adam.....I am not totally disagreeing with what you did but might have tried the softer hand first.......bestest friggin ( @tbob) regards (@leon) |
#18
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: scott (runscott)
...didn't get me anywhere;however, I agree that it's the way to go. I have a quick trigger, but I do START OFF polite. |
#19
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
OK. I agree with what Bruce is saying -- a polite approach might work best in this situation; but if the guy's a crook and doesn't think twice about passing off reprinted cards as originals, is he really going to care? I don't think he will. I'm very much for acting civil with respect to eBay "situations" like this one, but at the same time, I can really understand what Adam is saying. In fact, let me ask the following question: |
#20
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: scott (runscott)
...I would like to see clear scans of the card, both front and back. |
#21
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: leon
unless it was an honest mistake by the seller.... |
#22
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Leon & Scott -- |
#23
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: scott (runscott)
We expect certain levels of expertise out of sellers, but there are sellers with great feedback who are ignorant about some of the items they sell. I recently saw an item on ebay that was a blatant forgery, being sold by someone I know - he did say in his description that he wasn't sure what it was. So the question is "should he have known?". Heck, I don't know. The only reason I knew it was fake was because I had seen similar fakes on ebay before, sold by known forgers, but this particular item was not something the seller normally handled. |
#24
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Scott -- |
#25
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: leon
How can someone take responsibility on the front end of an honest mistake? If they did it wouldn't be a mistake because they would have caught it....Before I did a little research on the Kendig card, in the other thread, I posted my thoughts on it. If I would have done the little bit of other research first I would not have posted that I made a mistake afterwards. Golly, can a guy even make a an honest mistake? In the few auctions on ebay where I have sold things I tell folks that I don't take returns "unless I make a material mistake".....hence giving myself an out if I happen to be human best regards....BTW, we can leg wrestle at the Nationals to see who is right on this issue ....after a few cold ones... |
#26
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: MW
Leon -- |
#27
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: leon
I agree with you.....and BTW, leg wrestling is when the 2 people get on their backs on the ground, interlock one of each of their legs, and try to pull the other over.....kind of like arm wrestling with legs...sorry folks....this was a very important explanation as you will see if you go to the Nationals and see 2 middle aged guys flopping around on the floor....you will then know what Michael and I are doing ......regards all |
#28
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: warshawlaw
The seller, benny@netusa1.net, responded and refunded my $$, with apologies for not reviewing the item before selling it: |
#29
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: Mike Williams
it was handled professionally! Giving this seller the benefit of the doubt was the right thing to do. |
#30
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: warshawlaw
The card never arrived; looks like the roach had it returned (I checked the USPS delivery confirmation slip he emailed to Scott) to Ohio. |
#31
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Time to fight back and stop being ripped off
Posted By: warshawlaw
was meant to update on the situation with that jackass threatmaker, not with the N184 seller, who is a totally different person and obviously a stand-up guy |
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