PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns

[cdogstu99]

I’m buying puts on CLCT tomorrow.

I can see this leading to PSA needing to repurchase altered cards that are likely worth a fraction of their original value.

Even if they weren’t in cahoots with PWCC, it has been proven that their grading capabilities are horrendous. Reputation completely tarnished with a high likelihood that their future grading revenues decline significantly.

And if they were in cahoots, this ship is going to sink even quicker.


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[MULLINS5]

https://mobile.twitter.com/darrenrovell

[CobbSpikedMe]

Uh oh, we're getting some attention.

[leaflover]

I see this whole mess ending very badly for everyone. Dealers, collectors, investors AND TPG's alike. How in the world will PSA be able to buy back all of those altered cards, that got by them, at the prices that their monthly SMR says they are worth?
After all CEO Joe O. has signed off "Taking My Hacks" each and every month with "Never get cheated".

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by leaflover

I see this whole mess ending very badly for everyone. Dealers, collectors, investors AND TPG's alike. How in the world will PSA be able to buy back all of those altered cards, that got by them, at the prices that their monthly SMR says they are worth?
After all CEO Joe O. has signed off "Taking My Hacks" each and every month with "Never get cheated".

Some expect they'll fight tooth and nail on each and every one on which a buyback is requested.

[70ToppsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Some expect they'll fight tooth and nail on each and every one on which a buyback is requested.

Actually in this case PSA has apparently found a willing party to cover those costs instead of going to jail for being party to a fraud.

I expect that as cards are shown to be altered and traceable to PWCC they (PWCC) will make restitution for them and turn in the cards to PSA. Meanwhile, PSA will continue to stand behind their brand and methods.

Unless forced by legal actions to disclose the full breadth of possible affected cards there is no way PSA would ever issue a comprehensive flip list. Ultimately only those cards that can shown to be doctored (along the lines of what has been shown on BO) will ever be dealt with. The rest will stay in their existing slabs and continue to be regarded as the real deal by those who are not aware of this situation. If submitted for review PSA has no incentive to change the original opinion, because doing so would undermine the perception of their brand.

If you have any doubts about this scenario coming to pass just go back a few years and see what happened to the majority of the “late model” vintage cellos with stars showing that made it into slabs and are still being bought, sold and exchanged in the hobby today.

This isn’t like Johnson & Johnson and the Tylenol problem in the 80s.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 70ToppsFanatic

Actually in this case PSA has apparently found a willing party to cover those costs instead of going to jail for being party to a fraud.

I expect that as cards are shown to be altered and traceable to PWCC they (PWCC) will make restitution for them and turn in the cards to PSA. Meanwhile, PSA will continue to stand behind their brand and methods.

Unless forced by legal actions to disclose the full breadth of possible affected cards there is no way PSA would ever issue a comprehensive flip list. Ultimately only those cards that can shown to be doctored (along the lines of what has been shown on BO) will ever be dealt with. The rest will stay in their existing slabs and continue to be regarded as the real deal by those who are not aware of this situation. If submitted for review PSA has no incentive to change the original opinion, because doing so would undermine the perception of their brand.

If you have any doubts about this scenario coming to pass just go back a few years and see what happened to the majority of the “late model” vintage cellos with stars showing that made it into slabs and are still being bought, sold and exchanged in the hobby today.

This isn’t like Johnson & Johnson and the Tylenol problem in the 80s.

This is exactly what I've been trying to convey all along, but it seems to fall on a lot of deaf ears. I guess this group largely wants PSA to thrive and survive for personal financial reasons.

[jfkheat]

I just saw this posted on Facebook. I don't know if it has been posted here.

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...E1HC8J1wLRDR2A

[Bigdaddy]

What are the odds that a year from now, there is a significant change to the viability of PSA and/or PWCC as a company? Is this a bump in the road, or the beginning of a major change in the hobby? Will card prices continue to rise, especially for higher grade examples, or will we see a bear market? I think it all hinges on any legal proceedings and prosecution of the guilty.

[Snapolit1]

I'd be stunned if this goes anywhere criminally. But I am not a criminal attorney. The board has a really good one, and it ain't me.

In a similar vein, let's see if anyone goes after Boeing criminally after a few hundred thousand scathing articles in the press and a few planes dropping out of the sky.

[vintagehofrookies]

there's a reason why I have never and will never purchase from PWCC. They have always been scammers and whether you want to believe it or not, they WILL ALWAYS be scammers. So once this all blows over and all the idiots who were blatantly bidding on not only shilled auctions but altered cards to boot and who are now complaining about said auctions because now they have an overpriced altered card,well guess what? they WILL be back buying from PWCC again lol, why? because people are idiots. PWCC will keep on doing all the shady things they have been doing this whole time, why you ask?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As long as there's money to be made, there will always be scammers. As long as there are consignments services, the scammers will hide behind them and when fraud is exposed the consignors will play dumb and pass the blame onto the consignees and the process will repeat itself until people stop paying the exorbitant prices these shilled auctions are selling for.

Also, please tell me that there isn't a single person that didn't see one of the TPG companies being corrupt lol. I mean, they are an open door for corruption! All these idiots who swear by PSA are the same ones who are gonna be crying when their PSA 8 1951 Mantle they paid almost 6 figures for is really an altered card worth $5k lol

As a side note, I can't help but get the feeling this situation is the first of many of the dominoes to fall which will in turn burst this massive bubble our hobby is in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagehofrookies

there's a reason why I have never and will never purchase from PWCC. They have always been scammers and whether you want to believe it or not, they WILL ALWAYS be scammers. So once this all blows over and all the idiots who were blatantly bidding on not only shilled auctions but altered cards to boot and who are now complaining about said auctions because now they have an overpriced altered card,well guess what? they WILL be back buying from PWCC again lol, why? because people are idiots. PWCC will keep on doing all the shady things they have been doing this whole time, why you ask?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As long as there's money to be made, there will always be scammers. As long as there are consignments services, the scammers will hide behind them and when fraud is exposed the consignors will play dumb and pass the blame onto the consignees and the process will repeat itself until people stop paying the exorbitant prices these shilled auctions are selling for.

As a side note, I can't help but get the feeling this situation is the first of many of the dominoes to fall which will in turn burst this massive bubble our hobby is in.

15 years of selling altered cards, likely from multiple sources not just one, and we get a golly we're sorry about all the Moser cards.

[vintagehofrookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

15 years of selling altered cards, likely from multiple sources not just one, and we get a golly we're sorry about all the Moser cards.

Greed is the real backbone of our hobby

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagehofrookies

Greed is the real backbone of our hobby

The root of all evil. Truer words...

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by vintagehofrookies

there's a reason why I have never and will never purchase from PWCC. They have always been scammers and whether you want to believe it or not, they WILL ALWAYS be scammers. So once this all blows over and all the idiots who were blatantly bidding on not only shilled auctions but altered cards to boot and who are now complaining about said auctions because now they have an overpriced altered card,well guess what? they WILL be back buying from PWCC again lol, why? because people are idiots. PWCC will keep on doing all the shady things they have been doing this whole time, why you ask?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As long as there's money to be made, there will always be scammers. As long as there are consignments services, the scammers will hide behind them and when fraud is exposed the consignors will play dumb and pass the blame onto the consignees and the process will repeat itself until people stop paying the exorbitant prices these shilled auctions are selling for.

Also, please tell me that there isn't a single person that didn't see one of the TPG companies being corrupt lol. I mean, they are an open door for corruption! All these idiots who swear by PSA are the same ones who are gonna be crying when their PSA 8 1951 Mantle they paid almost 6 figures for is really an altered card worth $5k lol

As a side note, I can't help but get the feeling this situation is the first of many of the dominoes to fall which will in turn burst this massive bubble our hobby is in.

I have to agree wholeheartedly, and that's why my fat fanny is so chaffed. I knew in my gut they were doing this all along, and after seeing the facts, now the picture is very clear.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by cdogstu99

I’m buying puts on CLCT tomorrow.

I can see this leading to PSA needing to repurchase altered cards that are likely worth a fraction of their original value.

Even if they weren’t in cahoots with PWCC, it has been proven that their grading capabilities are horrendous. Reputation completely tarnished with a high likelihood that their future grading revenues decline significantly.

And if they were in cahoots, this ship is going to sink even quicker.


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I think you’ll find that CLCT options have bid/ask spreads wide enough to navigate a VLCC through and, even with those spreads, the volumes available are really small.

[Johnny630]

Most investors will avoid like the plague because they as a whole, I know I do despise uncertainty…… Too many big-time people own big cards in their holders PSA will be fine…… Short term glitch yes correct Correction in the market? I can see that big time…… Best time to buy is when the prices tank…… Verify first then trust… Until court in plastic holders pay me a quarterly dividend I will avoid