Dispute with an auction company

[Stanesq]

I am in a dispute with an auction company.

I won a lot described as this for $880:
484 Diff 1998 Fleer signed cards (though they picture 1997 topps of only 8 players) An absolute gold mine of signed cards, this amazing binder has QUANTITIES of many of the key players, but NO DUPLICATION. The effort that went into this is simply incredible. The breakdown value here is seemingly endless, with page after page with a HOFer, popular star or popular Yankee, etc. Condition is very strong overall, there are only a small number of weaker autographs. The lists of keys here is simply staggering, and is as follows: Bagwell (5), Biggio, Boggs, Bonds (2), Clemens (3 diff), Cone, Eckersley, Girardi, Glavine, J. Gonzalez (2), Grace, Green, Guerrero, Gwynn (2 diff), Hoffman, Irabu (2), Jeter (2), R. Johnson (3), A. Jones (3), C. Jones (2), Kent, Konerko, Maddux (3), P. Martinez (3), T. Martinez, McGriff (2), McGwire (5), Molitor, Mussina, O’Neill, Ortiz, Palmeiro (2), Pettite, Piazza (3), Posada, M. Ramirez, Ripken (4), Rivera, ARod (4), Salmon, Schilling (3), Sheffield (2), Smoltz, Thomas (3), Thome and Bernie Williams. JSA LOA.

When the binder arrived, I never bothered to check the cards, having bought tens of thousands of cards over the years from them.

Instead I received a 364 card lot of 1997 Topps Described as including this: Bagwell, Biggio, Bonds, Caminiti, Damon (2), Giambi, L. Gonzalez, Green, Guerrero, R. Henderson, Hershiser, Hoffman, Kent, Molitor, Molitor (2), Murray, Olerud, Palmeiro, Piazza, Rivera, Schilling, Sheffield and Wells.

I never really cracked open the binder more than a couple times to check a friends wantlist. It was not until I received a call from the Auction Company owner asking me to return the 1997 Topps that I realized that I didnt receive the right lot with the stars. Unfortunately I had sold 5 cards from the lot, all commons, the best one being Ruben Rivera. I sent the binder back and the owner tells me we are missing 14 cards, no one major who was pictured.

I offered to pay the fair value of the 5 I sold or even 14 cards which was $2 to $3 per card and was told by the auction owner that he was not willing to do that and that he was going to keep the set I won (which had 484 cards) and send me back the now 350 card signed lot because I must have been happy with it as I never contacted him earlier on my own (this was due to more serious issues I was dealing with heathwise so I never check it as I trusted this guy).

To me, I am being totally defrauded as the auction owner knows that I didnt receive what I paid for as clearly the 4 arod,2 jeters, 2 bonds, 3 pedros and 3 randy johnsons are what made the lot worth $800+. The other lot does not have the same star power.

I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW THIS SHOULD BE HANDLED.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Stanesq

I never cracked open the binder until I received a call from the Auction Company owner asking me to return the 1997 Topps. Unfortunately I had sold 5 cards from the lot, all commons, the best one being Ruben Rivera. I sent the binder back and the owner tells me we are missing 14 cards, no one major who was pictured.

How is this possible?


Sounds like a mess all around. No offense.

[Abeabe]

How can you sell cards from a binder you never cracked open?

[Stanesq]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

How is this possible?


Sounds like a mess all around. No offense.

While I agree it needs to be sorted out, my paying for the sold cards (for which I received a whopping $25) at a rate of $3 per card would have been $42.

The fact that I had my thyroid removed (due to tumors) and thus my health issue is what made me not really concerned about that set or any other as I was fighting for my health.

I never would have guessed that had I looked I would be missing all those stars. In this hobby we buy autographs trusting that what you send will be real and that if I win a lot of 484 cards I get 484. I dont expect that they will send me 364 and not have the stars that I paid for.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Stanesq

When the binder arrived, I never bothered to check the cards, having bought tens of thousands of cards over the years from them.

Instead I received a 364 card lot of 1997 Topps Described as including this: Bagwell, Biggio, Bonds, Caminiti, Damon (2), Giambi, L. Gonzalez, Green, Guerrero, R. Henderson, Hershiser, Hoffman, Kent, Molitor, Molitor (2), Murray, Olerud, Palmeiro, Piazza, Rivera, Schilling, Sheffield and Wells.

I never cracked open the binder until I received a call from the Auction Company owner asking me to return the 1997 Topps. Unfortunately I had sold 5 cards from the lot, all commons, the best one being Ruben Rivera. I sent the binder back and the owner tells me we are missing 14 cards, no one major who was pictured.
.

Sorry counselor, the ruling goes against you on this one. Both you and the auction house messed up however, what you did was a bit more egregious as you KNEW that this was not the lot of 1998 signed cards you won yet you sold 5 of the cards anyway. How could you not expect some blow back when the auction house realized their mistake and contacted you? If we take your words as they are written, you opened up the binder after he contacted you and then sold 5 of the cards. The story does not add up. You will need to negotiate a fair payment to him for the missing cards, those you sold and those he claims are missing. This cannot be your estimate of their value but some price you can both agree upon. I would do this with hat in hand. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet and admit your mistake. Read my signature below, stop then read again. Just my opinion.

[BrianinAZ]

While I agree he probably should not have sold any cards, thankfully they were common items and not major ones pictured.

I think the auction house is trying to take advanatge of the stuation though as
they know that the 1998 Fller lot A) has more cards by 120 B) has stars that are worth about $500 more than the other lot.

So to me, the auction house sees an opportunity to screw the guy and they are taking advanatge of his selling a few cards. The nice thing is because the lot they sent him is about 25% short of what he was supposed to get, he can probably sue in small claims as he didnt get what was advertised and I presume the guy should know how to do that.

If the guy is wiling to pay $2,3,4 or even $5 per missing card that is penalty enough. If the auction house balks at that fair offer then its obvious the auction house is taking advantage of the guy.

[BrianinAZ]

Originally Posted by Michael B

Sorry counselor, the ruling goes against you on this one. Both you and the auction house messed up however, what you did was a bit more egregious as you KNEW that this was not the lot of 1998 signed cards you won yet you sold 5 of the cards anyway. How could you not expect some blow back when the auction house realized their mistake and contacted you? If we take your words as they are written, you opened up the binder after he contacted you and then sold 5 of the cards. The story does not add up. You will need to negotiate a fair payment to him for the missing cards, those you sold and those he claims are missing. This cannot be your estimate of their value but some price you can both agree upon. I would do this with hat in hand. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet and admit your mistake. Read my signature below, stop then read again. Just my opinion.

I think the way he described it he sold the cards before he knew that it was the wrong set.

[Stanesq]

Originally Posted by Michael B

Sorry counselor, the ruling goes against you on this one. Both you and the auction house messed up however, what you did was a bit more egregious as you KNEW that this was not the lot of 1998 signed cards you won yet you sold 5 of the cards anyway. How could you not expect some blow back when the auction house realized their mistake and contacted you? If we take your words as they are written, you opened up the binder after he contacted you and then sold 5 of the cards. The story does not add up. You will need to negotiate a fair payment to him for the missing cards, those you sold and those he claims are missing. This cannot be your estimate of their value but some price you can both agree upon. I would do this with hat in hand. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet and admit your mistake. Read my signature below, stop then read again. Just my opinion.

Forgive me for wording it poorly but I am pretty ticked and feeling like I am getting robbed. I opened the binder to check a friends wantlist thats how I sold 5 cards. I then went to the hospital shortly thereafter and had my thryoid removed so I never checked it again until the phone call.

[sbfinley]

I really don't know what to tell you. Just seems like a mess on all fronts. The auction was labeled wrong and I don't see a Fleer lot in the same auction. You bid anyway and didn't check what you received. Sold some. Never contacted the house. Months later, I assume, the house realizes a mistake and you guys can't come to terms. There is no cut and dry answer to this problem IMO because....

Originally Posted by Stanesq

I am in a dispute with an auction company.

I won a lot described as this for $880:
484 Diff 1998 Fleer signed cards (though they picture 1997 topps of only 8 players) An absolute gold mine of signed cards, this amazing binder has QUANTITIES of many of the key players, but NO DUPLICATION.
When the binder arrived, I never bothered to check the cards, having bought tens of thousands of cards over the years from them.


I never really cracked open the binder more than a couple times to check a friends wantlist. It was not until I received a call from the Auction Company owner asking me to return the 1997 Topps that I realized that I didnt receive the right lot with the stars. Unfortunately I had sold 5 cards from the lot, all commons, the best one being Ruben Rivera. I sent the binder back and the owner tells me we are missing 14 cards, no one major who was pictured.

I offered to pay the fair value of the 5 I sold or even 14 cards which was $2 to $3 per card and was told by the auction owner that he was not willing to do that and that he was going to keep the set I won (which had 484 cards) and send me back the now 350 card signed lot because I must have been happy with it as I never contacted him earlier on my own (this was due to more serious issues I was dealing with heathwise so I never check it as I trusted this guy).

To me, I am being totally defrauded as the auction owner knows that I didnt receive what I paid for as clearly the 4 arod,2 jeters, 2 bonds, 3 pedros and 3 randy johnsons are what made the lot worth $800+. The other lot does not have the same star power.

I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW THIS SHOULD BE HANDLED.

I just can't wrap my head around the bold statements. Your high bid on the lot was based upon the stars listed in a description that didn't match the pictures, didn't bother to check the contents when it arrived and only now feel defrauded when they called to have it returned. Why did you not feel defrauded when you sold some and contact the house? I sincerely hope your health issues are behind you, and baseball cards are indeed an insignificant part of life all things considering, but it just doesn't seem like a clear case of fraud or deception. Really, I'm at a loss.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I would just forget it and work on your health..what is $800 (even less since what you did get makes up at least a few hundred i would gather) compared to trying to get stress out of your life..

health is what matters more given the facts in this situation and the type of money lost wont impact your health i would think..

[Steve D]

Unfortunately, I see this case as one where you are now at the dealer's mercy.
Here's a basic rundown as I see it:

1. The auction listing (description) did not match the photos for the lot.
2. You bid on the lot anyway, based on the lot description (disclaimer: I probably would have done the same thing, but I probably would have sent a quick email to the auction house to verify).
3. When you got the lot, you did not verify that you had received what you expected (this is even though you knew there was a discrepancy in the listing) (kind of a case of fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me).
4. You sold items from the lot; again, without verifying that the cards were the ones you actually bid on.
5. The auction house then realized their mistake, and contacted you for the lots return.
6. You could not return the lot in its entirety, since you had sold individual cards from it.
7. The auction house decides to let the auction lot stand as shipped.

Now, you have what would seem to be mitigating circumstances, in that concurrently with all of this going on, you were dealing with serious medical issues and surgery. It would be up to the auction house to cut you a break if they deem it appropriate. Unfortunately, I have heard bad things about the auction house involved in this, to include poor customer service, and their not treating their bidders "correctly". I have only had a couple of dealings with them personally, and have had no problems, but both instances were on single-item, inexpensive lots. Suffice to say, the number of stories I've read makes me think twice about dealing with them.

I feel for you and your situation, but the fact that you broke up the lot upon receipt and sold items from it, is, at least to me, defacto acceptance of the lot as is; it does not matter that you did not actually verify it. If the auction house cuts you a break due to your personal circumstances, is entirely up to them; and I do not believe that is in their modus operandi.

Good luck on all fronts.

Edited to add: I tend to agree with Jake's post above mine (#10). Your health is much more important than a few hundred dollars you might lose on these cards. Live to fight another day.

Steve

[chaddurbin]

from googling is this from cleansweep oct 7th 2015 auction? that's like half a year? usually i would side with bidders always but c'mon you gotta take some responsibility in this...and health is no excuse for sloppiness. you had months to check the lot out, you even have time to take out 5 cards from the binders to sell (did you telepathically know the location of these cards within the binder?)

having said all that if what you are saying is actually what went down the value of the 5 cards sold is negligible compared to the whole lot steve should take the lot back, but i can see why he'd be irked and giving you a hard time.

[Stanesq]

You guys are right that $800 is a negligible amount compared to my health. I was also given 5 days to try and replace the cards.
If I were told of this month's ago I would have done something about it. I also know that sometimes he has someone else do n the writeups and if I received 484 topps instead of fleer I could care less as I bought the lots for the stars.

While I realize that learning of this some months later is not great, the price of the common players is under $50. I have spent at least $50k (with more than $10K in buyers premiums) over the years at th his place. The fact that anyone would blow that type of business relationship over a few cards is upsetting.

Couple that with the fact that I receieved 120 less cards and a significant amount of stars and the auction house is ok with me getting jammed now that I realized makes it sting even more.

The money is not the part that hurts it's the lack of consideration. I always offered to pay the value of the cards. I made a whopping $25 on the few cards I sold.

I didn't want to have to go the legal route but now on principle I will have to do just that.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stanesq

You guys are right that $800 is a negligible amount compared to my health. I was also given 5 days to try and replace the cards.
If I were told of this month's ago I would have done something about it. I also know that sometimes he has someone else do n the writeups and if I received 484 topps instead of fleer I could care less as I bought the lots for the stars.

While I realize that learning of this some months later is not great, the price of the common players is under $50. I have spent at least $50k (with more than $10K in buyers premiums) over the years at th his place. The fact that anyone would blow that type of business relationship over a few cards is upsetting.

Couple that with the fact that I receieved 120 less cards and a significant amount of stars and the auction house is ok with me getting jammed now that I realized makes it sting even more.

The money is not the part that hurts it's the lack of consideration. I always offered to pay the value of the cards. I made a whopping $25 on the few cards I sold.

I didn't want to have to go the legal route but now on principle I will have to do just that.

Right, like they say on TV...small claims is never about the money its usually about the principal. However like i said before...Health should be the most important part...health over money (unless the amount of money impacts health seriously) and health even over principal........

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Stanesq

While I realize that learning of this some months later is not great, the price of the common players is under $50. I have spent at least $50k (with more than $10K in buyers premiums) over the years at th his place. The fact that anyone would blow that type of business relationship over a few cards is upsetting.

While it appears you may technically bear a significant amount of responsibility, in my opinion, the auction house should make an accommodation in the interest of goodwill and good customer relations. And, the fact remains that their error is what precipitated this.

This thread has already generated more bad PR than the $50 worth of cards you sold. Not a wise move to nickel and dime a good customer.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

While it appears you may technically bear a significant amount of responsibility, in my opinion, the auction house should make an accommodation in the interest of goodwill and good customer relations. And, the fact remains that their error is what precipitated this.

This thread has already generated more bad PR than the $50 worth of cards you sold. Not a wise move to nickel and dime a good customer.

+1

Especially if, as the OP states, he's a long-time customer who's spent $50K+ with the AH over the years.

Seems the AH is being "Penny-wise and pound-foolish".

Steve

[RichardSimon]

Recovering from thyroid surgery is a bitch.
Believe me, I speak from personal experience.
Thank goodness it is almost two years in my past.
Though it is something to stay on top of, for the rest of your life.
Thank goodness for synthroid .

[Stanesq]

Steve and I had a conversation today and are trying to figure this out I will keep you all posted.

[Stanesq]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Recovering from thyroid surgery is a bitch.
Believe me, I speak from personal experience.
Thank goodness it is almost two years in my past.
Though it is something to stay on top of, for the rest of your life.
Thank goodness for synthroid .

Glad to hear you are doing well Richard. They still don't have my synthroid right and I have to take name brand synthroid as the generic stuff my body reacts poorly to. Hopefully they can get my levels straight one of these days. They keep increasing my dose to try and get me right.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Stanesq

Glad to hear you are doing well Richard. They still don't have my synthroid right and I have to take name brand synthroid as the generic stuff my body reacts poorly to. Hopefully they can get my levels straight one of these days. They keep increasing my dose to try and get me right.

Took a while to get mine straight but once they do you will be fine.
I took name brand from the start because my endo did not think the generic was trustworthy.