N266 Red Cross - confirming the master set

[G1911]

Usually I try to confirm things myself before asking others to go to effort, but this one is difficult to do from pictures online because the difference is pretty obvious in hand but doesn't show up well in pictures. Thought I would start here this time.

Basically, N266 comes in at least four different types, which I have numbered on an arbitrary basis. The 2 from normal production are those from the pickup thread; and the 2 kinds of "proofs" (more likely just poster cuts or similar) were shared a couple years ago in another thread after Adam posted 1 and I showed the other. Here's all four known types:


Type 1 - Normal card, the copyright line on front is very faint and in an italicized font where the "1893" can look a lot like "1890".

Type 2 - Normal card, the copyright line on front is faint but less fain than type 1, and is in a much thicker, bold font where the "1893" cannot be mistaken for "1890".

Type 3 - Thinner card that appears cut from something, with a gold border around the white (sometimes trimmed off); the copyright line at the top of the picture rather than the bottom, and no "Red Cross Long Cut" on the front. Tend to appear handcut.

Type 4 - Similar to type 3; a thinner card that appears cut from something with a gold border added. In the bottom gold border there is a blue caption for the card title; which does not appear in red at top like it does in types 1-3. Tend to appear handcut.


Personally, types 3 and 4 are probably advertising material or something and not technically part of a master set of actual production cards, but that makes them no less cool and interesting. I am not aware of much of any research here and am starting from scratch.


The sample here is possibly biased; 2 of my 25 cards from 1 buy, a 3rd from eBay, and the other 22 from a batch that apparently came from a single previous collection. Thus, that I have 12 of type 1 and 13 of type 2 may not be proof that they are roughly equally common, but it is my starting supposition that there is not a meaningful rarity difference between the two types. The handful of "CONFIRMED" cells in the below come from images online that are HD enough to be 100% certain of the caption type. This isn't very hard to tell apart in hand, so I am hoping some of you might be willing to check your cards and share which ones you have of which type so that we might be able to collectively validate a checklist.

Types 1 and 2 are shown here for better clarity than my words can do.

[D. Bergin]

Hey Greg,

Did you see this group of 11 from 2007 at Heritage?

Not even sure what to call these, or how they got into PSA slabs described as regular N266's...but here they are.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/boxing-col...umbnail-071515

[G1911]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Hey Greg,

Did you see this group of 11 from 2007 at Heritage?

Not even sure what to call these, or how they got into PSA slabs described as regular N266's...but here they are.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/boxing-col...umbnail-071515

Thank you Dave! I remembered a lot of these but I couldn't find the listing, probably because I was searching for "cut", "proof", "blank back". These are the ones I arbitrarily assigned as type 4's.

Here's the other type of these odd cuts (not my card! The one on the right). This one lacks the blue titling at bottom and has it in red at the top, like the production cards, but moves the copyright line.

I don't think they are proper cards or proofs as I've often seen them described, but I only handled some once and don't own any to properly examine.

[G1911]

And the updated confirmation list:

[teza11]

Hi Greg,

The attached confirms another 4-5 of the Type 4's.

Jeff

[G1911]

Originally Posted by teza11

Hi Greg,

The attached confirms another 4-5 of the Type 4's.

Jeff

Thank you Jeff! This brings it up to 48% of the theoretical combinations confirmed; OP dated.

Largely waiting to see if we will show a card confirmed with both type 3 (cut card with the red title at top) and type 4 (cut card card with the blue title at bottom instead). So far all 17 confirmed are not yet shown in the other type; this may be from the same piece and each card only comes with a type 3 or a type 4. I expect type 1 and type 2 will each have all 25.

[G1911]

Well I've had a difficult time identifying many more of the regular and true 'cards', types 1 and 2. They are easily discerned in hands when I take my glasses off but via scans, not so much to my eyes.

I did, however, find this very interesting miscut in an old auction. Note the top strip. It has a normal back and does not appear to be handcut. The layout is a proper type 1 card. The top strip is similar in color to the type 4's top and left framing border. Presumably this is an indicator this card was on the top row of the sheet, but I would expect a white stock that would be cheaper and more sensible to use rather than this. Some interesting possibilities here.

Unrelated - anyone have a pic of the Smith/Van Heest back? This is one of the few I don't own a copy of and there seems to be no available back scan online.

[Exhibitman]

Hope this helps.

I've always figured that the oddball versions were from some sort of advertising or album that we haven't found yet. The non-Red Cross version could be from some other brand. Like the Janus poster:

[Alexcards]

Greg,
I have about 70 of these at home and will take a look on Thursday.... I'll be in touch.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Alexcards

Greg,
I have about 70 of these at home and will take a look on Thursday.... I'll be in touch.

You are the man, thank you for taking the time. It's easy in hand but most pictures of them aren't quite crisp enough for me to 100% identify the type. Shoot me a call whenever, buddy. I'll email an update of my list tonight