Now that they are ended - E100?

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Posted By: leon

Ideas? My thought, as are some other collectors thoughts I have spoken with, is printers scrap.......

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Posted By: Steve Murray

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Posted By: robert a

The cut of the card indicates scrap, but I've heard tell of colors that I've never seen before. This seems to be lack of color.

Rob

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Posted By: leon

But they don't have backs, they aren't type 2's, and are obviously hand cut? It would be neat if they were just missing colors but I don't think that is it....

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Posted By: robert a

Yeah, I didn't look at the auction.

Usually any kind of printer's scrap that I'm familiar with is either thinner paper or the same stock.

The seller indicates this is thick stock. Either way, I don't get why someone would trim off part of the name?

Rob

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Posted By: robert a

Is that the slightest hint of a border outline on the left side of the card?

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Posted By: dstudeba

I agree it is an e100 printers scrap. It does have a border, the same card stock and the same size as a Type 1. Why another person would want one is beyond me.

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Posted By: leon

I certainly wouldn't want "1" either.

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Posted By: leon

After careful examination I am going with printers scrap as to the identity of these. There is a chance they were cut off an ad piece but the dimensions (minus the cut borders), the players and the typeset are the same as E100 type 1's...These were found on the bottom of a shoebox of PCL cards with other E100 type 1 and 2's and many obaks. A very original collection that was new to the hobby... I think REA will have several from this collection in their next auction....no printers scraps, but other cards.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Leon - there appears to be some writing on the back of the Powell (under the remnants of paper). Is that something stuck to the card, or is that writing printed on the back of the card?

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Posted By: leon

Yes, I noticed that before I bid on them too. It is in fact remnants from another card. I guess they were stacked at one time....

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Thanks for sharing.

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Posted By: leon

Shown many times before but still sort of fitting...
There is precedent for black and white pcl type cards when the cards normally came in color.

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Posted By: dstudeba

That is an interesting card. How many of them are there? Is it known that it was issued like other Home Run Kisses?

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Posted By: leon

I got the HR Kisses black and white card from Dennis King. Dennis had (probably) the very first brick and mortar baseball card shop in America and it was in California. I think it was the early 70's when it opened. He is also a good friend of Mark Macrae. I had spoken to Dennis about it before the National and he brought it there for me. No idea how it was issued and according to Mark and Dennis this is the only one known. It is quite the mystery.....FYI, I also got my SGC80 T217 Mono from him....it was raw when I got it...


edited to add....When I got it slabbbed SGC didn't know what to put so they put the obvious on the flip....

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Posted By: dstudeba

Thanks for the information. I guess in the end it comes down to what each collector thinks is a printer's piece/proof and what is a card. I think it could be argued that the Home Run Kisses card is a proof. For example in the N321 set, the Whitehead card below was slabbed by GAI as a Type III, with obvious differences between that and the standard issued N321 Borchers. Personally I think the Whitehead is a proof, probably just semantics as each collector has to decide for themselves.

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Posted By: leon

It's a good debate but I feel the term "proof" is thrown around WAY TOO often. Printing guys might chime in but when I think of proof I think of....

1. Crosshairs on the borders to line up the card for mfg.
2. No name on the card.
3. Many times hand cut.
4. Blank back even if there was supposed to be printing.
5. Minor differences in the card itself (like the Proof T206 Matty)


Personally I don't think your N321 is a proof as it doesn't fit what I look for in proofs. Just my thought on that....I also don't think the E100's or the HR Kiss black and white is a proof....Maybe test pieces but not what I would call proofs.....

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Posted By: dstudeba

Hi Leon, I definitely agree with you on points 1, 3 & 4. Point 2 is a good point, and I don't think point 5 is necessary but would be indicative of a proof.

I think "proof" was a poor choice of words, but I felt that "scrap" didn't give your cards enough respect. I previously used the word "piece" and maybe that is a better choice. I think proof has been used to mean something that wasn't issued, and somehow came out from the same printing presses that issued the cards. Maybe it is time to clarify and find a better terminology.