52 topps attic find and detecting fakes

[JohnnyKilroy]

Found a guy who is trying to offload a bunch of 50s raw cards including a massive collection of 52 Topps. Literally found in a friends grandparents attic. Obviously the Mantle is commonly faked, but are there really fake commons and high numbers? His story doesn’t have too many holes, but if they are real, he’s sitting on quite a collection.

I purchased 2 cards off him through ebay that are graded and that’s how we got to talking. He didn’t have a huge seller history and doesn’t really have other listings. His story was that he sent 3 cards off to get graded through his local card shop, those are the ones he sold on ebay, and is overwhelmed with the collection and which way to go with it. Joked about the cost to grade cards and said he’d rather just sell them all raw. He’s got a couple 54 Williams and Robinsons that looks super clean and sharp, plus a real nice 55 Koufax. He sent me a bunch of pics and everything looks good to me, but I wouldn’t know the first thing about spotting a fake. What jumped out at me was how white the borders were and some were super centered.

He suggested I buy just a couple cards and he’d throw in a few 52 topps commons and high numbers. Then I could send them all off to PSA expedited, and if they check out, at least it would make me feel a little better about spending thousands on the collection. He said I could come out to Montana and check them all out any time I wanted, but I still need to figure out what I’m looking for.

Any suggestions, tips, tricks? 52 commons faked? What’s a VG common go for these days? VG high number? The one’s in card savers are all high numbers.

[ullmandds]

damn...they look nice!

[Exhibitman]

Had a recent similar situation. I asked the seller to send me a couple of the cards--commons--to look over for a small price. I chose the two. If they look good, I make the deal. If they are bad I am only out the price of a few commons.

[swarmee]

VG commons are in the $5-20 range. VG high number commons are in the $100 range.
And of course you want to check for the possibility of Gray Backs in the 1952 131-190 range, and in 1954's 1-50 range.

Commons from those gray back variations in VG condition sell for hundreds each.

[JohnnyKilroy]

Originally Posted by swarmee

VG commons are in the $5-20 range. VG high number commons are in the $100 range.
And of course you want to check for the possibility of Gray Backs in the 1952 131-190 range, and in 1954's 1-50 range.

Commons from those gray back variations in VG condition sell for hundreds each.

Thanks for that!

[drcy]

Offhand from those two smallish photos, the cards appear authentic.

What is that, a 500 count box? And I assume there are more boxes. That would be a ton of cards to fake. Making a 500 count box of fakes, including mostly assorted commons, isn't the way a forger would work.

When you get some cards, you can post scans here.

[MikeGarcia]

..I hope things work out for you ; my red flag for all this is the story of sending in a few through his "local card shop" and then you mentioned the cards are in Montana......the people I know who still have local card shops really are on the constant alert for people like him that just walk in with a story like his , and then to go through the process of helping him send in a few for grading , without going all "Mr. Mint" on this guy.....well, like I said , I hope things work out for you.....

..

[JohnnyKilroy]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..I hope things work out for you ; my red flag for all this is the story of sending in a few through his "local card shop" and then you mentioned the cards are in Montana......the people I know who still have local card shops really are on the constant alert for people like him that just walk in with a story like his , and then to go through the process of helping him send in a few for grading , without going all "Mr. Mint" on this guy.....well, like I said , I hope things work out for you.....

..

I hear ya. He’s going to mail me a few random commons and high numbers that I chose. I’ll put scans up when I get them. If they look legit, I couldn’t see why the rest wouldn’t be.

[cardsagain74]

Devil's advocate here, but:

"Snow white borders and perfect centering"? (hallmark of the most obvious fakes or reprints)

Using an ebay stranger who just bought two cards and talked with you for awhile for all this (instead of continuing with the local card shop, as most people who have finds would)?

Sending that stranger high numbers that aren't paid for without a concern in the world?

Be careful....

[JohnnyKilroy]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Devil's advocate here, but:

"Snow white borders and perfect centering"? (hallmark of the most obvious fakes or reprints)

Using an ebay stranger who just bought two cards and talked with you for awhile for all this (instead of continuing with the local card shop, as most people who have finds would)?

Sending that stranger high numbers that aren't paid for without a concern in the world?

Be careful....

Oh for sure. We are working out the details for which high numbers he sends, but I will pay a little. He understands how the story obviously sounds. We are both trying to figure out the best way to do this and feel comfortable. He’s not really soliciting me. And truthfully, the more I find out, and pics I see, the more I believe it. Still not sending thousands of dollars unless certain obviously. And there’s always the option to fly in and see the cards myself, as stated earlier, I wouldn’t even know what to look for. It’s kind of why we came up with the idea of just sending me a few randoms of my choice.

BTW, I’ve been following your 52 topps quest! Amazing!! If this pans out, I might actually take a run at it.

[Lorewalker]

If they were found in his friends' grandparents home is he selling them for his friend? Why is his friend not selling them since it sounds like he does not know the card market that well?

Also you stated his story does not have too many holes. I like my stories to not have any holes.

Hope it works out but if you have ever seen the film House of Games from the late 80s how a conman earns the trust of his victims before he swindles them, it would give you pause. Might be worth a trip to Montana.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy

Oh for sure. We are working out the details for which high numbers he sends, but I will pay a little. He understands how the story obviously sounds. We are both trying to figure out the best way to do this and feel comfortable. He’s not really soliciting me. And truthfully, the more I find out, and pics I see, the more I believe it. Still not sending thousands of dollars unless certain obviously. And there’s always the option to fly in and see the cards myself, as stated earlier, I wouldn’t even know what to look for. It’s kind of why we came up with the idea of just sending me a few randoms of my choice.

BTW, I’ve been following your 52 topps quest! Amazing!! If this pans out, I might actually take a run at it.

Thanks. A find of all those high number commons/minors in VG would be too ideal to help finish my set. Hope it works out for you!

And "House of Games" was incredible

[JohnnyKilroy]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

If they were found in his friends' grandparents home is he selling them for his friend? Why is his friend not selling them since it sounds like he does not know the card market that well?

Also you stated his story does not have too many holes. I like my stories to not have any holes.

Hope it works out but if you have ever seen the film House of Games from the late 80s how a conman earns the trust of his victims before he swindles them, it would give you pause. Might be worth a trip to Montana.

Story goes, friend found the cards, kept the Mantle and gave the rest to him because he owed him money. I’ve seen a pic of the Mantle. It had all the markings/signs that should be there for the type 2, but yes.. I understand fakes are only getting better. As for the holes, it’s just one of those things that starts off with holes, then they slowly get filled. So one of two things is happening.. he’s either the conman from House of Games, or it’s legit. Either way, not getting my money till I’m certain.

Pause is there. I’m not a big risk taker. So this will be a process. The card I bought from him was fairly close to market value too, so not like I got a screaming deal. I’m sure he has the ability and know how to look up past ebay sales. I think where the deal comes in is buying in bulk and I haven’t even began to dig into the deal portion. I’m still focusing on whether they are real or not... then we talk numbers.

[111gecko]

You mentioned all the card savers hold the "high numbers". The one shown is # 172 Eddie Miksis. Maybe you could have him send a list of numbers to make sure he knows they are 311-407?

[oldeboo]

In the internet age it's not hard to believe that people take a hard pass on selling to a brick and mortar store. There are dealers that will pay a pretty big price, but generally pay pennies on the dollar for big projects like this. Most would probably prefer to buy the big ticket HOF cards and flip those or flip as is, but not everyone is putting together a 52 Topps set. Breaking up a partial set is a lot of work and can take years. Likewise, it's a lot of work for any seller. I would doubt he gives you an absolutely screaming deal as I'm sure he was offered a low price already.

I don't find this to be overly impossible as a legitimate deal. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds once you share more.

[JohnnyKilroy]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

You mentioned all the card savers hold the "high numbers". The one shown is # 172 Eddie Miksis. Maybe you could have him send a list of numbers to make sure he knows they are 311-407?

Nice! That helps! I’ll do it now.

[uniship]

My gut tells me this is 100% legit and a great find. Hoping to hear how it all plays out.

btw those cards look SWEET from that photo. lot of value there.

[drcy]

Many people like this have authentic items. However, they also often want top dollar for it.

I've also known people "off the street" who have discovered or inherited big collections on the order of this and who aren't always eager to consign it to auction or such. Thus, an individual trying to handle and sell the cards on his own over time is not unusual. Some are DIY types.

I believe all the official reprints of 1950s Topps cards are equally glossy on both sides, and I believe the official reprints of the 1952 Topps are smaller (normal card size, whereas the 1952 Topps are larger). So weeding out normal reprints would be simple. The backs of the 1950s Topps are on normal, non-glossy "au nautural" card stock, off white to gray.

[todeen]

I grew up in Billings in the early 1990s, and there was a thriving card culture there. I can remember at least 3 card shops, there might have been more. The MiLB Pioneer League was the heart and soul of professional baseball, and the Colorado Rockies caravan would come up to Billings in the mid-90s. My tee-ball coach was the brother of Jeff Ballard, and Dave McNally had an auto dealership there. To many outsiders, they might think that Montana is backwoods / cattle ranching/ Unabomber / anti-taxers, but they are just as crazy about baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie as everyone else.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy

I wouldn’t even know what to look for. It’s kind of why we came up with the idea of just sending me a few randoms

Then you need to buy some real 1952 Topps cards either here or COMC/Ebay to be able to compare them in hand when these come in. Get a couple white backs and a couple gray backs (ones from other series than 131-190) because they'll be cheaper.
But, as stated, there really aren't any counterfeits of the entire set. Just cost prohibitive to do it for no gain.

[Tao_Moko]

This is very cool and look like they have a high probability of being authentic to me. Not far fetched as it was a mass produced set. I had partial to complete sets of 51B-69T in boxes just like displayed in your image and I wish I had them back. Good luck. I hope this works out for you.

[irv]

Same as above. I hope everything is on the up and up and all works out for you.
It's a great set, imo, but of course I am biased.

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by irv

Same as above. I hope everything is on the up and up and all works out for you.
It's a great set, imo, but of course I am biased.

Thanks for sharing the image of your collection. That Mays and Robinson are so cool.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by irv

Same as above. I hope everything is on the up and up and all works out for you.
It's a great set, imo, but of course I am biased.

This must be the only '52 T spread on the planet that also includes a trophy and (half) feet

[irv]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Thanks for sharing the image of your collection. That Mays and Robinson are so cool.

You're welcome, and thanks!

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

This must be the only '52 T spread on the planet that also includes a trophy and (half) feet

LOL.

I thought I cropped out my feet but I obviously did something wrong?
The Trophy is just one of my son's from school but I can't remember why it was there or why I didn't move it?

[JohnnyKilroy]

Thanks everyone! This story will continue in a few days. He sent a priority mail package with my purchased cards along with some 52s. I asked if he had the Baritrome, Wilhelm, and a couple other High numbers... he never responded, but sent me the tracking info and said “I think you’ll like it”, but didn’t tell me what he included. So, still on the strange side, but only time will tell. I will report back.

[JohnnyKilroy]

Update... this is definitely real! He sent commons and a couple high numbers. They look like the few I already have, they measure up, I am definitely believing his story. He also has sent me a list of all the high number he has. Now the next step.. figuring out a price!! These cards are in fantastic shape too.

I’m hoping to just buy them all and get a bulk deal. It does look like there are lots of duplicates, so hopefully those will aid in trading / selling for ones needed. I’ll keep updating!

[irv]

Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy

Update... this is definitely real! He sent commons and a couple high numbers. They look like the few I already have, they measure up, I am definitely believing his story. He also has sent me a list of all the high number he has. Now the next step.. figuring out a price!! These cards are in fantastic shape too.

I’m hoping to just buy them all and get a bulk deal. It does look like there are lots of duplicates, so hopefully those will aid in trading / selling for ones needed. I’ll keep updating!

Good news.

Can you post up some pics of the cards you just received?

[JohnnyKilroy]

These are in great shape, he said most were like this. The Frank Smith is one I had lying around, but why is the back a different color?

[JohnnyKilroy]

Can someone tell me how you guys post such clear pics?? I take them with my phone, but the file size is too big. I try a scanner, but it comes out like the ones above. There’s got to be a trick I’m missing.

[drcy]

Topps can have different color backs, as they used different card stocks.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy

These are in great shape, he said most were like this. The Frank Smith is one I had lying around, but why is the back a different color?

Card numbers 131-190 are normally found with white backs. Grey backs in that series are rare and command a large premium.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy

Can someone tell me how you guys post such clear pics?? I take them with my phone, but the file size is too big. I try a scanner, but it comes out like the ones above. There’s got to be a trick I’m missing.

My trick is to upload them to my Facebook page (you can set the post to "Only Me" if you don't want to overload your friends with baseball cards). Then go to each image and right click on the picture, then select "Copy Image Link."

Come back to your post and click the icon above the frame with the mountain in front of the yellow sky, and paste your link (make sure to delete the default https or your embedded photo won't display).

[ramram]

Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy

Can someone tell me how you guys post such clear pics?? I take them with my phone, but the file size is too big. I try a scanner, but it comes out like the ones above. There’s got to be a trick I’m missing.

Yeah, it can be a pain. Usually if I scan on my computer and post from my computer it works well. Just don't use too high of a dpi setting or your file will be too big.

Rob M

[Republicaninmass]

I do it from tapatalk, medium size, one at a time

[Bcwcardz]

I really hope everything works out. Be careful. So many scammers out there. They are good too. I could see one sending real cards just to score a big deal later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[irv]

Originally Posted by JohnnyKilroy

Can someone tell me how you guys post such clear pics?? I take them with my phone, but the file size is too big. I try a scanner, but it comes out like the ones above. There’s got to be a trick I’m missing.

You need to do one card at a time and crop the pic so no background space is visible, just the card.
I then upload them to my documents on my computer then use "Manage Attachments" below then use "Choose File" to find the scan then upload it/them to the site.

If pics are still too big, there are a ton of image/pic resizers for free on the internet.

Good luck, and thanks for posting the pics you have so far.

[jimjim]

He sent you a Tony B? I thought that is a high dollar card.

[JohnnyKilroy]

Cards are the real deal! Received yesterday! On to the 52 build I go!

[71buc]

Congratulations I am genuinely excited for you. Its nice to know that there are still such items waiting to be discovered.

[Exhibitman]

Wow, that is fantastic!

[GasHouseGang]

It looks like you are well on your way. Congrats!

[ramram]

Wow! Congrats. How many did you end up getting?

Rob M

[oldeboo]

That's awesome! A good example of why it's a smart idea to send a message to a seller after buying something or even before. Can't say I've bought a near 1952 Topps set, but I've done some wheelin' and dealin' behind the scenes when the situation seems to present an opportunity.