Raw Vintage Questions

[mferronibc]

So I’ve been sort of getting back into collecting this past year. Full honesty, started with some higher grade PSA 7-8 cards, nothing over a few hundred bucks- mainly late issue HOFers or Leaders cards. After spending a lot of time on here reading about the current state of professional grading and thinking more about what it is that really excites me about collecting I am more and more testing the waters with raw cards. I find this much more rewarding so far trying to sift through cards I actually want that look to be reasonable bargains based on their condition than simply a “set price” based on a PSA number and previous auction prices. The questions I have are:

1) Is it a fair assumption that when you see a nice looking card from these big volume raw sellers, they have already determined the card is not worth the additional $20 (or $8) to have it graded and possibly sell it for more. I.e. most of these cards even if they look great would probably grade out like sub-4 even if the pics make them look better?

2) Finding the variability with photos kinda frustrating. As someone advised me before, so you just have to be committed to the fact that some of these purchases will have to be returned if the card looks much worse when you get it in hand? Would you then be very suspicious of sellers who state a no return policy?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by mferronibc

So I’ve been sort of getting back into collecting this past year. Full honesty, started with some higher grade PSA 7-8 cards, nothing over a few hundred bucks- mainly late issue HOFers or Leaders cards. After spending a lot of time on here reading about the current state of professional grading and thinking more about what it is that really excites me about collecting I am more and more testing the waters with raw cards. I find this much more rewarding so far trying to sift through cards I actually want that look to be reasonable bargains based on their condition than simply a “set price” based on a PSA number and previous auction prices. The questions I have are:

1) Is it a fair assumption that when you see a nice looking card from these big volume raw sellers, they have already determined the card is not worth the additional $20 (or $8) to have it graded and possibly sell it for more. I.e. most of these cards even if they look great would probably grade out like sub-4 even if the pics make them look better?

2) Finding the variability with photos kinda frustrating. As someone advised me before, so you just have to be committed to the fact that some of these purchases will have to be returned if the card looks much worse when you get it in hand? Would you then be very suspicious of sellers who state a no return policy?

I believe the answer to #1 is a mixed bag. Some sellers would feel the card is not worth grading, others feel that grading might not increase the value enough to cover the expense + effort involved, and others probably just are not into grading, period. I've found some really great raw cards lately, that are actually better than the sellers have portrayed/described.

Regarding question #2... While I'm leery of sellers who have "no return" policies, you are covered by eBay and PayPal (if applicable). Every now and then, you'll get a raw card with an unwelcome "surprise", but I have found it to be very rare. One of the keys is to ask a lot of questions up-front. You can tell pretty quickly if the seller is forthright, based off their communications. If they are too brief or tardy with their replies, it's probably a red flag, or a sign to refrain.

But if they are prompt to help out and thoroughly answer your concerns, I think you can be pretty confident. I always ask about my personal pet-peeve, which are creases / surface wrinkles (that often don't show on the scans). If they reply definitively that there are no surface wrinkles, I can feel very confident in bidding (especially given eBay's Buyer Protection). Just my 2 cents, and perhaps others have had different experiences. Hope this helps.

[mferronibc]

Super helpful- thanks for your insights!

[steve B]

1) Yes, it really is a mixed bag. One thing to do is to look at what other cards the seller has. If they have say 75 T206s and they're all graded except for one, that would probably signal that that card has a problem. Some sellers might just take whatever they get the way they get it and move it along as quickly as they can.

I wouldn't stick to just big sellers who specialize in cards. Most of the deals I've gotten have been from sellers who don't do just cards.

If you're looking at the PSA 7-8 range though it will mostly be bigger sellers, ad the cards are few and far between. The best I've done was an SGC 80 (6).

2) Bad photos are a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, they can be an indication that the seller is hiding something. On the other hand, it can also be an indication of a seller who just can't be bothered to take a decent picture or scan. Just like the grade/ungraded thing, I look at the sellers other items. Great photos except the one card? That's a red flag to me. All the photos blurry? If things don't get out of hand it could mean a pretty nice mailday in my future. (One of my better old bicycles was poorly listed with awful photos. But they were good enough to spot the rare derailleur it has )

Overall, I take a chance on something from what might at first seem to be an iffy listing, but being cheap I don't often risk much. I must be a good guesser, as most of the stuff I've bought has been just fine, sometimes way better. I can't recall returning anything either, but I'm pretty easy about stuff, especially if I'm taking a chance on a bad picture or listing.

[mferronibc]

Thanks Steve - very helpful tips!

[drcy]

Turnaround time from buy to sell is one key to making a living. I hear that the PSA grading time can be really long, so that likely is a consideration for sellers when considering whether or not to grade a card.