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  #1051  
Old 12-22-2019, 06:20 PM
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bnorth bnorth is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felada View Post
This seems to be getting lost with trimming scandal. What ever happened with the investigation?
Pretty much nothing, it was swept under the rug very efficiently.

It did get SGC to close down its horrible auto authentication department but that is all.
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  #1052  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:00 PM
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perezfan perezfan is online now
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SCD did shut down its autograph division, and these phony/shaky signed T206s have stopped rearing their ugly heads for the most part.

But not sure whether anything else has transpired, or whether the forgers were even caught (much less arrested).

It is worth noting that this Autograph Scandal (while big news at the time) pales in comparison to the current Card Trimming Fraud/Scandal. In terms of dollars and profits commanded by the Crooks and TPGs, it's well over a 100 : 1 ratio.

Last edited by perezfan; 12-22-2019 at 11:21 PM.
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  #1053  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:39 PM
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Good timing for a revisit. This signed McBride was listed today and sold today at a best offer of $1,500, which was unfortunately better than my last offer preceding the sale.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T...-/254460776901

It was previously sold in 2014 in REA for $1,800 here:

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...bride-batting/

The provenance is fairly clean, and was not related to the other signed T206 cards that REA sold that turned out bad.

I keep looking for these and very few people who have them wish to sell. If you have any you’d like to part with, please let me know.
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  #1054  
Old 12-22-2019, 09:19 PM
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So - does this mean that with all the evidence found, there was NOTHING done? No arrests? No charges? NADA?
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  #1055  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:48 AM
topcat61 topcat61 is offline
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This was first discovered over a year ago and had morphed from Tobacco cards like T206 to 1930's and 40's gum cards. I suspect there's a percentage of collectors, dealers and auction houses who want this to go away.

To be honest, this cost a lot of money and integrity not to be solved so I'm surprised that people are as nonchalant about it. There are cards still out there so someone is still going to get dinged for a lot of money and lets not forget, forgery is still a major crime even if its a sports card. Someone knows more about this, like the FBI...or the grading companies...
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  #1056  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat61 View Post
This was first discovered over a year ago and had morphed from Tobacco cards like T206 to 1930's and 40's gum cards. I suspect there's a percentage of collectors, dealers and auction houses who want this to go away.

To be honest, this cost a lot of money and integrity not to be solved so I'm surprised that people are as nonchalant about it. There are cards still out there so someone is still going to get dinged for a lot of money and lets not forget, forgery is still a major crime even if its a sports card. Someone knows more about this, like the FBI...or the grading companies...
Regarding your last sentence... I'm not sure if the FBI got involved with that debacle. It all went away so fast that we never learned what became of the criminals involved. The fact that SGC shut down its autograph division shortly thereafter raises more questions than it provides answers...

Did FBI involvement force the shutdown? Did SGC come to the realization that it was not a battle worth fighting? Did they believe they could cut their financial losses and liabilities by walking away? Did they lose all of their competent graders, and were unable to find apt replacements? Perhaps it's a combination of "all of the above".

With regard to the grading companies, anything they know will be kept a secret. You can bank on it. They have never been forthcoming, nor have they done one single thing to combat, expose or publicize the fraud in this business. The only thing they're good at is keeping silent, turning profits, and perpetuating the mess we are now in.

Last edited by perezfan; 12-23-2019 at 11:58 AM.
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  #1057  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:53 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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From SGC

"Hi Ted,


Thank you for reaching out on this matter. The FBI is involved in the forgery investigation and the best course of action at this point would be to speak to the auction house that you purchased the item from."
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322 jackson
328 borkowski
345 white
347 adcock
354 Hatfield
386 yuhas
399 frisley
403 miller
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  #1058  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:55 AM
topcat61 topcat61 is offline
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Somebody owes the people who got ripped off an explanation, whether it be the FBI, auction houses, grading companies or all of the above.

I'm angry about this, and with SGC. I had a pretty disturbing encounter with a grader from SGC on 11/5/18 which I wrote about on net54 -

[I]" I'm curious to know if any fellow net54 members have experienced similar issues dealing with SGC?

[I][I]While attending Boston's 2018 Shriners Show, I went to SGC to get this 1921 National Caramel card that once belonged to Buck Barker authenticated. I had several letters of Buck's with me for verification. The kid next to me said that that was an option that could be done. However, the conversation went down hill from there because the guy next to him told me the exact opposite -that they don't authenticate cards like this -despite corroborating evidence like other known cards and a letter Barker wrote to Walt Corson for comparison. The guy told me that they don't do handwriting analysis and that any corroborating material has to come from family members. Say what? Carter's card came directly from Doug Allen.

I then showed him a card they graded from Lionel Carter's collection and asked him when that card was sent in (2-15-07). I asked him who sent it in and he said it was an auction house, that it wasn't Carter himself. They refused to tell me who the auction house was but I already knew. It was Bill Mastro and Doug Allen, and there is video of that by both men on youtube...so why at this point be evasive?

Is SGC favoring auction houses over dealers and schmucks such as myself (a question SGC refused to answer when I asked)? How much money is going in to the these grading companies from the auction houses in order to receive preferential treatment?

If I was at an auction house, then they would grade it? The grader at SGC said I needed evidence and I showed it to him and he still refused. Is the auction house's expertise any better or worse than mine? This sounds like it's pay to play and the auction houses send these grading companies a shit load of money. How is this a level playing field? I left so bullshit that I ate not one, but two of those lousy hotdogs at the concession stand!


If you haven't seen these threads yet, I suggest that you do so. I also suggest that we start cleaning up this hobby fast and start holding people accountable. As I am to understand, Bill Mastro and company signed an agreement through his lawyers that he's never to do business again in the hobby.

To put it mildly, I wasn't thrilled by many of the responses to my thread about this, but unfortunately I feel a little vindicated. This isn't something to feel good about and I know how much money is involved which is why some dealers are willing to look the other way. It's only when you screw over the wrong person that change starts to come.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=1#post1830616

In my opinion, not enough people question these companies practices. In the above case, I gave them letters from Buck Barker to another collector and the guy said that they didn't do handwriting analysis...what is autograph authentication if not handwriting analysis? This is probably why they're not in that business anymore and why so many forged T206 autographs "apparently slipped" through their fingers.

I asked him point blank if auction houses get preferential treatment? In my opinion the man felt pretty comfortable lying to my face until I showed him the evidence and then he tried to throw me out of the building when I raised my concerns.

Now on a much larger scale, they were authenticating cards by either A) what was legit or B) Looking the other way from what I mentioned above or C) The forgers had someone on the inside or paying someone off.

This "Hobby" needs to be cleaned up and collectors need to take a good look in the mirror if they want this Hobby to remain viable in the 21st Century. As I see it, its not like millennials are getting into vintage cards these days. Theres way too much money floating around and tied up for collectors to want to get this cleaned up until something like PWCC happens and the FBI sends out subpoenas...when that shoe hits the ground, it's going to force all of us to take a step back and analyse what is going on and what needs to change to remain a viable hobby.

Last edited by topcat61; 12-24-2019 at 05:08 PM.
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  #1059  
Old 08-30-2020, 05:25 PM
felada felada is online now
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Almost two years since the first post. Still no update?
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  #1060  
Old 08-31-2020, 05:44 AM
chriskim chriskim is offline
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There were a lot of signed T206s in auction recently. I haven't even bother to check their hammer prices whether their prices actually dropped or people still buying them. But the owner of those selling them technically tell u something.
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  #1061  
Old 09-01-2020, 06:22 PM
mrvster mrvster is offline
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Default sucks so

bad!
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  #1062  
Old 09-04-2020, 06:44 PM
pbspelly pbspelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetBuilder View Post
Another one...this one's a biggie at $6,600.

Sold on eBay as an SGC 30 on July 8, 2015. Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...lly-1734408624.

Then sold at the REA 2016 Spring auction. Link here: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...illy-sullivan/.
I remember seeing that signed Sullivan and thinking it probably wasn't real.

I still don't really understand how autograph experts determine what is authentic or not. People's autographs vary so much over time and from one signature to another that it just seems almost impossible to truly know for certain. I've read a lot of the explanations on the autograph forum and I'm always fascinated by their explanations, but never 100% convinced that they're right. That's one reason I've never been into autographed stuff.

If anyone ever needs to see a genuine Sullivan Sr. sig for comparison purposes, by the way, I do have one or two family documents that he signed. In this case , of course, that's not necessary since it's clear it is not his because-due to the brilliant card-comparison sleuthing--we know that whoever signed it signed long after he was long gone.

Last edited by pbspelly; 09-05-2020 at 02:53 PM.
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