NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-20-2005, 08:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Brad Green



Why did the bidding on this card get so high? It ended for $352 this evening. Book value for this card in VG-Ex condition is $40 (based on 2004 SCD). Is the price guide value wrong or did the value go up significantly since 2004? I realize that this is considered one of Lefty's rookie cards and that it's graded by SGC, but what am I missing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1926-29-Baseball-Exhibit-Lefty-Grove-SGC-50-VG-EX-4_W0QQitemZ8708878015QQcategoryZ57993QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem



Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-20-2005, 08:29 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Paul Stratton

...the seller has something to do with it

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-20-2005, 09:02 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Brian McQueen


I believe that since production of this issue falls in a date range where it's possible the card was produced before the 1927 w560, some people would consider this a rookie card. I could be wrong though....However either way, this is a much more desirable early example of Grove than either his w560 or the 1926 Die Cut.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:59 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Brad Green



Brian:

I agree with everything that you said. This card is much nicer looking than the die cut or W560. Maybe more people are collecting rookie cards today than in recent years, driving the price higher. I just never considered this card that rare and hard to find, and was surprised to see the price so high. I expected the price to be above the SCD price since it was graded, but not 10x the value.

Brad


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-21-2005, 06:41 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: warshawlaw

Isn't that Richard's "handle"?

On to other things: I don't think that card is a 1926 issued card. It has the split PC back with Made in USA and Not to be used in exhibit machines. A blank back or a back that says This side for correspondence indicates the earliest print runs from this set. This card is almost certainly from a later print run.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-21-2005, 11:10 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Jimi

Rookie card prices are insane right now! They are so hot, that I have been rethinking my goals on RCs. Just too hard to get pre-war RCs because of the pricing.

I did just pick up the die-cut RC of Grove, and I think it is very cool looking. It's my first die-cut of anything so it is rather unique in my collection.

Jimi

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-21-2005, 11:48 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Richard

Yes, I paid too much. When your bid is 40% higher than Hal's bid, then you know that you overpaid! But I only have a fellow board member to thank for jacking the price up on me. Thanks again Skyhawks.

Adam - I only wish that I can eventually have only a portion of your knowledge on exhibits. Your help in the past has been invaluable.

As for this particular item, I bid high because it is an early issue - whether or not it is his rookie is debatable. Depends on if you consider die cuts, strip cards, exhibits, etc to be rookies. The seller being Scott had nothing to do with it. The player being Lefty Grove had everything to do with it.

As for paying 10x book, the price guide has gone up since 2004. I only paid 5x the 2006 guide price. What a deal!!




Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-21-2005, 01:42 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: warshawlaw

I also have to give credit where credit is due. Woody Scharf wrote the seminal articles on these cards in The Trader Speaks in December 1979-January 1980-February 1980. According to him (Jan. '79):

"The late H.R. Shapley told me that he had purchased these cards from vending machines as early as 1923, although player records indicate that some cards (players) may have made a debut a year or two later.... The first two printings - in a red-sepia color - are seen either with a post card back or with a plain blank back. Identification is made easy by the satement "THIS SIDE FOR CORRESPONDENCE" printed to the left on the backs of the post cards."

Woody grouped the 32 cards found in this format into Set 81. Grove was not part of this group.

I took Woody's word for it when he wrote to me in response to my ad looking for information in a 2000 VCBC classified, but I followed up with my own investigation. I think his friend's recollection is a bit off w/r/t 1923, but late 1924 is possible and 1925 is a virtual certainty. My dating analysis is based on analogous cards found in the boxing set and entertainment sets where title changes definitively date certain back styles, as well as the limited team changes found on some of these cards. I will say that if you can show me a card with a blank back or a PC back with This Side For Correspondence on its left, you almost certainly have a 1925 or 1926 printing date.

Scharf attributes Grove to Set 83, which is the last (ca. 1930 according to him) of the issues. I don't think this date is accurate either. First, I take issue with the fixed set analysis. It simply isn't true. The company routinely altered cards within sheets and reissued with some old cards and some new ones. The 5 "corrected" cards from the issue are 1924-5 issues with stickers over their name and team designations changed (see my web site for an example of a corrected Edd Roush). Uncut sheets of other Exhibit issues prove that the company slapped sheets together from various card plates (the 32-card full sheets were printed from combinations of 1 or 4 card printing plates) as it saw fit as players fell from grace, were traded, or supplanted by other stars. This has held true in all sports and over various years, so it is undoubtedly a reason why this "set" has a wacky number of cards and some very ugly short prints. You have to look at the card backs to get a rough idea of issue dates and even then, you can only pin it down to "no earlier than" type dating. I think given the relative numbers of different cards I've seen from the set in various venues, the Grove card was issued earlier than Scharf suggests. It is too populous a card to be the same issue as the 2nd Ruth or Gehrig or some of the other short printed later cards. The backs I've seen for Grove could have been used as early as late 1926 (where they show up on the analogous boxing cards), cerainly 1927. That's about as definitive as I can get the dates with the present information. Anyone who's got a card, flip it over and tell me what you see.

As far as Exhibit pricing in the book, I rewrote the table in '03 (how time flies!) and haven't revised it since (Bob has changed it some). I do think the numbers in the book are way low on Exhibits as they currently stand with perhaps the exception of a few Ruth and Gehrig cards and the 1928 PCLs (of course, they show up so rarely that the price structure is more or less based on 1-2 auctions that Bob and I discussed). There were several nice mid-grade HOFers from the set that sold in SGC graded form and they all closed in three figures, which is more in the ballpark for this issue given its difficulty and date. I was happily paying ex or even nm prices on these cards at the National for the few I was able to find that I needed for my set. Perhaps the inflation we've seen in other areas of the hobby is finally hitting Exhibits.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-28-2005, 06:46 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: warshawlaw

An SGC 40 for $262.09

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8712037584&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

And here is a Heilmann that went sky hi too, an SGC 70 at $357.00:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8712036154&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-28-2005, 11:35 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Richard

There are plenty of other stupid people out there other than me!!



Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-28-2005, 11:55 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: Josh K.

You're welcom Richard.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-28-2005, 11:58 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: warshawlaw

remember the old investment adage: never wrong, merely early.

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:36 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default 1926-29 Baseball Exhibit Lefty Grove SGC 50 VG/EX "4"

Posted By: nbrazil

"Rookie card prices are insane right now! They are so hot, that I have been rethinking my goals on RCs. Just too hard to get pre-war RCs because of the pricing."

you're telling me. I went after a slaughter rookie awhile ago....i put in a strong bid....the card sold for like 50% over my bid. geez...

Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SOLD - 1933 Goudey - Vernon "Lefty" Gomez HOF (SGC 40) Archive 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 1 12-03-2008 06:30 AM
Wanted: 1926-29 Postcard-back Exhibit Lefty Grove... Archive 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 0 05-05-2008 07:59 PM
For Trade: 1926-29 Postcard-Back Exhibit Lefty Grove Rookie Card Archive 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 2 01-23-2008 03:05 PM
WANTED: 1933 R300 George C. Miller "Lefty" Grove Archive 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 0 03-07-2007 05:35 AM
1926 Major League Die Cuts Lefty Grove Rookie SGC 40 Archive 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 0 10-20-2005 11:27 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:16 AM.


ebay GSB