1952 Topps Mantle CSG 8 sells for $1.25M

[111gecko]

The auction ended last night for the crossed CSG 8 Mantle. There have been a couple threads on this. I've always been of the mind set that I would rather have the PSA 7.5 rather than the crossover higher grade. I'll be honest though; I'm a bit surprised it went this high. Does this sales price give anyone more comfort of legitimacy for high value cards using them?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

The auction ended last night for the crossed CSG 8 Mantle. There have been a couple threads on this. I've always been of the mind set that I would rather have the PSA 7.5 rather than the crossover higher grade. I'll be honest though; I'm a bit surprised it went this high. Does this sales price give anyone more comfort of legitimacy for high value cards using them?

For me I don't think so.

PSA will remain Number 1 for resale value with SGC Coming Very Close on Quality Cards like this 52 Mantle. IMO both would have done much better in a PSA or SGC 8 holder then CSG.

[hcv123]

who the 2 top bidders were and how many, if any, beneath them!?

[111gecko]

Originally Posted by hcv123

who the 2 top bidders were and how many, if any, beneath them!?

Great point.

[raulus]

Unfortunately, one sale isn't much of a trend, even when it has such a high profile. As others have identified, there are some questions swirling around the action here, precisely how many bidders were bidding, and at what level.

But if we start to see a lot more action, with a plethora of CSG cards well into the 6 figure range, then I suspect we'll start to have a little more confidence that the market is there.

I suppose if I'm getting greedy in terms of wanting abundant confirmation, then it would also be helpful if there is a wicked downturn in the market, just to see how well CSG-graded items hold up relative to other TPGs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by hcv123

who the 2 top bidders were and how many, if any, beneath them!?

I think that about a lot of auctions.

[Rhotchkiss]

Below are pics of VCP data for PSA 8 and the one recent PSA 7.5, 1952 Topps Mantle sales.

I would MUCH rather have a PSA 7.5 for $705k than a CSG 8 for $1.25mm. I also would prefer a PSA 8 at $1.5mm than a CSG 8 $1.25mm. Just my opinion

[GasHouseGang]

Is there a link to the auctioned item?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Below are pics of VCP data for PSA 8 and the one recent PSA 7.5, 1952 Topps Mantle sales.

I would MUCH rather have a PSA 7.5 for $705k than a CSG 8 for $1.25mm. I also would prefer a PSA 8 at $1.5mm than a CSG 8 $1.25mm. Just my opinion

Personally, I would rather pick the best card rather than a TPG..But I collect cards not holders...

If the exact same card is more in a PSA holder than CSG, I am picking CSG..... And I think, over time, they will gain a lot of traction. But who knows...

.

[Ben Yourg]

How does the IRS look at this?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Leon

Personally, I would rather pick the best card rather than a TPG..But I collect cards not holders...

If the exact same card is more in a PSA holder than CSG, I am picking CSG..... And I think, over time, they will gain a lot of traction. But who knows...

.

Agree 100%.

It is also too bad that we all (or too many of us) are so jaded from all the BS that takes place in the hobby to not be skeptical of the sale. Lots of smoke and mirrors in the hobby. I hope the bidding was legit and the winner is someone who pays for the card.

Would be nice to see a 3rd option for grading because the top two could not have screwed the public more on a consistent basis.

[111gecko]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Is there a link to the auctioned item?

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/1952_...-LOT52543.aspx

[JustinD]

Please correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is that this was a PSA 7.5 crossover.

If that is indeed true than the crossover may have netted less than a PSA 8, but it wasn't an 8. It was a 7.5, so per that aspect the hustle worked. They sold it well over the initial investment.

Not something I would have done, but someone did.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Ben Yourg

How does the IRS look at this?

The IRS looks at it the way many of the posters here do. It’s all about the card, not the holder.

You can swap out, change around, or abandon the holder altogether, and it’s still the same card you bought in the first place, and when you sell it, the only real difference here is that the seller theoretically paid a little bit to get it graded by CSG. So the cost basis in the card would rise for those costs.

Otherwise, this is no different than buying and selling any other card. The seller made a bunch of money, and now gets to pay a lot of it to the government.

Edit: assuming, of course, that there are no shenanigans, like the buyer being the seller’s wife or something.

[Johnny630]

Are owners/investors in a TPG permitted to buy cards once they have ownership in said TPG Company?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Are owners/investors in a TPG permitted to buy cards once they have ownership in said TPG Company?

Who would stop them from buying cards?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by raulus

Who would stop them from buying cards?

Exactly so I take this price with a grain of salt. Let’s see how consistently strong CGS stays moving forward, then we can talk.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Exactly so I take this price with a grain of salt. Let’s see how consistently strong CGS stays moving forward, then we can talk.

Not that one card can put a grading company on the map but if this one did open eyes to CSG's legitimacy then it would be reasonable to expect more CSG presence in catalog auctions...maybe not for commons but certainly for star cards.

Up until now I do not see any auction houses sending material out to CSG for grading. People rather support two clearly compromised grading services because it is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Not that one card can put a grading company on the map but if this one did open eyes to CSG's legitimacy then it would be reasonable to expect more CSG presence in catalog auctions...maybe not for commons but certainly for star cards.

Up until now I do not see any auction houses sending material out to CSG for grading. People rather support two clearly compromised grading services because it is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

I understand what you’re saying I feel you. I will say, however I think there was some comfort level to the bidders in knowing that this was in a PSA 7.5 holder prior.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Not that one card can put a grading company on the map but if this one did open eyes to CSG's legitimacy then it would be reasonable to expect more CSG presence in catalog auctions...maybe not for commons but certainly for star cards.

Up until now I do not see any auction houses sending material out to CSG for grading. People rather support two clearly compromised grading services because it is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

If it makes you feel any better, I think our friends at PWCC have an arrangement to get pieces graded with CSG.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by raulus

If it makes you feel any better, I think our friends at PWCC have an arrangement to get pieces graded with CSG.

Ya had to remind me? Well I will not hold that against CSG. But let's keep this between us for now, if ya don't mind.

[Johnny630]

PWCC also has a special price for grading with SGC through them. I wonder why if they already had a deal with CSG??

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/....ices-raw-cards

[Shoeless Moe]

Anybody else find SCP's website to be annoying? That stupid giant Blue bar across the top takes up most of the viewing page.

[mrreality68]

Strong price either way.

I would have kept it as the 7.5 and would not have regraded with another company

But it worked out for the seller

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Exactly so I take this price with a grain of salt. Let’s see how consistently strong CGS stays moving forward, then we can talk.

One big sale does not a "new accepted player" make. Let's see some $100-$50,000 cards in CSG holders get auctioned across multiple auction platforms and see how they "perform"!?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by hcv123

One big sale does not a "new accepted player" make. Let's see some $100-$50,000 cards in CSG holders get auctioned across multiple auction platforms and see how they "perform"!?

I agree. We have not seen many if any CSG Graded Vintage Cards come up for auction in REA, ML, Goldin, Heritage, or Mile High.

[benge610]

Originally Posted by Leon

Personally, I would rather pick the best card rather than a TPG..But I collect cards not holders...

Ditto.

I know it doesn't contribute to Gary's post much; apologies. I don't need a TPG to tell my eyes what to see.; especially when $$$ are involved.

Ben
"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I agree. We have not seen many if any CSG Graded Vintage Cards come up for auction in REA, ML, Goldin, Heritage, or Mile High.

Hakes has been using them for various cards over the last few years. Mostly it is for Negro league cards to maintain the pedigree of the Richard Merkin collection. The prices seemed pretty strong on those auctions.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Leon

If the exact same card is more in a PSA holder than CSG, I am picking CSG..... And I think, over time, they will gain a lot of traction. But who knows...

.

I agree. If you believe that CSG does as good (or as bad) a job as PSA or SGC or BVG, then your best bet is to buy whichever has the least market respect right now.

In terms of traction, they already are gaining it in areas other than vintage baseball. I sell boxing cards in CSG holders as readily as in PSA holders.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Agree 100%.

It is also too bad that we all (or too many of us) are so jaded from all the BS that takes place in the hobby to not be skeptical of the sale. Lots of smoke and mirrors in the hobby. I hope the bidding was legit and the winner is someone who pays for the card.

Would be nice to see a 3rd option for grading because the top two could not have screwed the public more on a consistent basis.

I wish grading would go away except to determine authentic vs counterfeit. Im in the minortiy I know

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

I wish grading would go away except to determine authentic vs counterfeit. Im in the minortiy I know

I would not spend too much time wishing but I understand the sentiment. Given the overwhelming failures of grading, I am not sure I could say the hobby is better for grading.

Instead of collectors buying raw NM-MT altered cards for $X they are buying NM-MT graded altered cards for $5X.