Marijuana laws- O/T

[mark evans]

I likewise favor legalization and regulation. Not a perfect solution certainly but light-years better than criminalizing smoking at home by adults in my view.

One of my neighbors (and friends) is Keith Stroup, founder of NORML. We've discussed this issue many times and I find his arguments for legalization convincing, not that I was an especially hard sell.

Mark

[barrysloate]

Currently the government doesn't get a nickel of tax revenue from marijuana, and spends hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of dollars incarcerating low level nonviolent offenders who get caught carrying pot. That's a huge financial drain on this country.

Legalize it and it would bring in revenue, and then release all these low level users from prison and save the enormous expense. Was there a bigger issue in the election of 2012 than bringing in revenue and cutting expenses in order to balance the budget? Well, here's at least a small start.

[SmokyBurgess]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am Jewish- side out.

Nothing I have read here about keeping it illegal, to me, makes any sense at all. Go figure. For those that don't want it to be legal, that is your right. And as a democracy we will continue to revise laws as to what most people want, thank God and Bless America. Now back to watching "Reefer Madness".

My dear Jewish friend Leon,
The O.T. has many warnings about things that impair (mostly drink), but marijuana could certain be substituted very easily.
I can see why the world Biblical view would be at odds with the secular views and I think that is reflected on this post. Not surprising really.
It's never "side out" until your final whistle blows.

[teetwoohsix]

Genesis 1:11
Genesis 1:12
Genesis 1:29

Sincerely, Clayton

[Leon]

Originally Posted by SmokyBurgess

My dear Jewish friend Leon,
The O.T. has many warnings about things that impair (mostly drink), but marijuana could certain be substituted very easily.
I can see why the world Biblical view would be at odds with the secular views and I think that is reflected on this post. Not surprising really.
It's never "side out" until your final whistle blows.

Comprehension is a dying trend. Side out merely means your turn. Had I said "game over" then your statement would ring true. As I said above, we are in America and eventually what the masses want is what we will do. There is no reasonable answer that I have seen or heard to not legalize given the legality of alcohol, tobacco etc....There are many, many reasons to legalize it and only a few reasons not to. I am not advocating the use of it only the legalization, which makes complete sense to most Americans. I believe it is inevitable and a good thing. God Bless America.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Leon

Comprehension is a dying trend. Side out merely means your turn. Had I said "game over" then your statement would ring true. As I said above, we are in America and eventually what the masses want is what we will do. There is no reasonable answer that I have seen or heard to not legalize given the legality of alcohol, tobacco etc....There are many, many reasons to legalize it and only a few reasons not to. I am not advocating the use of it only the legalization, which makes complete sense to most Americans. I believe it is inevitable and a good thing. God Bless America.

+1

I've enjoyed having a rational discussion about this topic, when we are constantly hearing about a "fiscal cliff" and "job creation" and things of such, I can't help but wonder why we as a nation can't find a middle ground. This is one of those topics that I feel , if done properly, could not only help our economy, create jobs, and at least put a dent in the enormous debt that will not only continue us down this spiral, but also leave too big of a burden on the children (tomorrows future). By no means am I (like Leon) advocating the use of it, but just hoping common sense will begin to make sense at some point.

We must close the divide in this country to work out all of the problems-there has to be a middle ground.

If you care to, read what these people have to say: http://www.leap.cc/

From good people who have been on the front lines of the "war on drugs".

Sincerely, Clayton

[cubsfan-budman]

A parallel topic that came up earlier is how it would be tested for, in the case of DUI/DWI situations, or workplace injury, etc.

As it is now (from what I understand) is that if you're in a workplace accident, they can drug test you and if they find that you've got THC in your system, you're screwed...but the test that they use will detect pot smoked days or weeks earlier. So, while you may not be "under the influence" at the time, you'd still have the detectable residue of your actions days or weeks prior. Alcohol is out of your system in 12 or so hour's time, so the tests of your inebriation are more reliable.

I don't know if there are tests that allow someone to test for inebriation from pot. This seems like something that *I* would want straightened out before I decided to recreationally smoke (or for medical reasons, for that matter). The threat of being punished for "being under the influence" of pot that I smoked 2 weeks ago would be deterrent enough for me.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

A parallel topic that came up earlier is how it would be tested for, in the case of DUI/DWI situations, or workplace injury, etc.

As it is now (from what I understand) is that if you're in a workplace accident, they can drug test you and if they find that you've got THC in your system, you're screwed...but the test that they use will detect pot smoked days or weeks earlier. So, while you may not be "under the influence" at the time, you'd still have the detectable residue of your actions days or weeks prior. Alcohol is out of your system in 12 or so hour's time, so the tests of your inebriation are more reliable.

I don't know if there are tests that allow someone to test for inebriation from pot. This seems like something that *I* would want straightened out before I decided to recreationally smoke (or for medical reasons, for that matter). The threat of being punished for "being under the influence" of pot that I smoked 2 weeks ago would be deterrent enough for me.

Very good points made. And with the legalization would (probably) come millions of dollars for research. I am extremely confident that urine, hair follicle or other tests could be invented to test the THC in one's system and how long it has been there. No, this is not perfect but what we have been doing is a witch hunt, a drain on resources and quite honestly, imho, just plain stupid. It is time for a change, especially when each of the last several presidents have admitted to doing it (though maybe one of them didn't inhale ).

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

+1

I've enjoyed having a rational discussion about this topic, when we are constantly hearing about a "fiscal cliff" and "job creation" and things of such, I can't help but wonder why we as a nation can't find a middle ground. This is one of those topics that I feel , if done properly, could not only help our economy, create jobs, and at least put a dent in the enormous debt that will not only continue us down this spiral, but also leave too big of a burden on the children (tomorrows future). By no means am I (like Leon) advocating the use of it, but just hoping common sense will begin to make sense at some point.

We must close the divide in this country to work out all of the problems-there has to be a middle ground.

If you care to, read what these people have to say: http://www.leap.cc/

From good people who have been on the front lines of the "war on drugs".

Sincerely, Clayton

+1

While everyone's looking at job "creation". Why not take a look at job "legitimization" as well. A good place to start would be the strip-clubs. Our government manages to regulate the hell out of the clubs and dancers, based on what they feel are morals, but somehow the dancers themselves have managed to not be taxed, as well as a large portion of these clubs cash income(dancer fees, door charges....) Dancers are "technically" subcontractors instead of employees, which makes it easier for them to hide from the system. Rather than focusing on regulating morals, why not regulate the clubs a little more, so that we can legitimatize these jobs and tax them. Not only will these people begin to show as employed, but it will take away that loophole that has allowed them to both, have jobs, while being able to milk the welfare system...

Now, I'm not saying all dancers are milking the system, but there's definitely a large percentage that is doing so..

[frankbmd]

You have to dance 30 hours a week to get health care.

And if you dance 20 hours a week each at two different strip clubs, you're still not covered. Well I guess we all knew that.

Welcome to part-time USA.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

You have to dance 30 hours a week to get health care.

And if you dance 20 hours a week each at two different strip clubs, you're still not covered. Well I guess we all knew that.

Welcome to part-time USA.

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not. If it's not. Where is this at? I'm not sure how the clubs are treated in "other" areas of the country. But I know in Ohio they're all treated as sub-contractors to the clubs, giving the clubs the opportunity to basically file as just another bar, while everything else is pretty much shoved under the table.

[frankbmd]

Not sarcasm. Just a statement about the unintended consequences of non-partisan government regulation. I could care less about strip clubs.

[Tsaiko]

....An awful lot of drug sniffing dogs will have to be retrained.

[thedutymon]

Morning,

As a Proud Coloradoan and Ex-law Enforcement, I have wished for this day for 30 years. And I haven't had a toke in at least 25 years or so. The reason's have all been laid out, the cost over the last 70+ years to fight this battle is in the Trillions. The moneys put into the pockets of the Cartels is in the Billions. The legitimate uses for Hemp, and now the New legitimate use of Hemp are going to transform our economies in small and big ways, in ways that have not even been imagined yet.

Little word of advice, Buy Stock in company's specializing in providing products (Grow Lights, Ect) to the Medical Pot industry now. You Will make money!!

To the members that seem to want to pass judgement on those who would indulge in this type of behavior, or wish to proclaim your Religious background into this debate or use it to judge anybody here, remember "Judge Not, lest ye be Judged!!"

I drink a few Beers almost every weekend.....Does that say something about me? Keep your comments about anothers Legal behavior to yourself, I don't appreciate it and I'll bet I'm not the only one!

Are there going to be some Hiccups...Oh Yeah !!! Our Governer has called and talked to the Federal Attorney General twice in the last two days to get clarification of what the Feds intend to do about our flouting of Federal Laws. We haven't heard an answer yet, either he isn't telling our Gov anything or what he's telling him is not going to be good for us.

As I said I haven't toked in 25 years, and don't intend to any time soon, but I am 56 and they say it helps with the Arthritists, so I'll never say never!

Another Big issue that hasn't really entered the discussion so far are about the individual rights that are/will be infringed upon with the Legalization in Wash/Col. Example, a Doritos Manufacturer has a plant in Denver and has a Drug policy of drug testing randomly, so Joe Pot head takes the test tomorrow and flunks it for Pot, they Fire him. The court cases are waiting in the background, he is and should sue them for unlawfull termination. Because they have no right to tell him that he cannot indulge in a Perfectly Legal substance on his own time at his home! (There is no test that tells when it was imbibed, just that you did it in the last 30-45 days). That would be the same thing as telling me that I can't go home and have a Beer. So Joe is in violation of Federal Controlled Substance act, but in compliance with State Law, I don't start teelling me what I already know, that Fed trumps State. I see the Lawsuits already and you can take that to the Bank !!!

As to those that mentioned about the DUI and testing for driving under the infuence of Pot, they do indeed have tests that can be administered Roadside that test levels of cannabis.

Proud to Call Colorado my Home, be a Coloradoan, and to be on the front line of a new Era in rational Drug Policy's !!!!

YeeHah

[jefferyepayne]

Wow, this battlefield is going to be fun to watch. Who says the election is over? Can't wait to see the Feds and States battle over this one.

A great discussion / debate with ramifications well beyond the issue at hand. Watch carefully how this plays out.

jeff

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Wow, this battlefield is going to be fun to watch. Who says the election is over? Can't wait to see the Feds and States battle over this one.

A great discussion / debate with ramifications well beyond the issue at hand. Watch carefully how this plays out.

jeff

Interesting discussion and another slow news day so I decided to use dictator privileges and move this to the front page where more folks can join in, if they so desire. Party on......

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by thedutymon

Another Big issue that hasn't really entered the discussion so far are about the individual rights that are/will be infringed upon with the Legalization in Wash/Col. Example, a Doritos Manufacturer has a plant in Denver and has a Drug policy of drug testing randomly, so Joe Pot head takes the test tomorrow and flunks it for Pot, they Fire him. The court cases are waiting in the background, he is and should sue them for unlawfull termination. Because they have no right to tell him that he cannot indulge in a Perfectly Legal substance on his own time at his home! (There is no test that tells when it was imbibed, just that you did it in the last 30-45 days). That would be the same thing as telling me that I can't go home and have a Beer. So Joe is in violation of Federal Controlled Substance act, but in compliance with State Law, I don't start teelling me what I already know, that Fed trumps State. I see the Lawsuits already and you can take that to the Bank !!!

It's not an issue at all. Ammendment 64 will still allow an employer the right to restrict the use of marijuana by employees and refuse employment to those that use it. It's kind of like this. Colorado also has a concealed handgun law (right to carry). Don't employers have the right to prohibit guns in the workplace regardless of the law? Sure they do. I'm not sure what some of you guys are thinking.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's not an issue at all. Ammendment 64 will still allow an employer the right to restrict the use of marijuana by employees and refuse employment to those that use it. It's kind of like this. Colorado also has a concealed handgun law (right to carry). Don't employers have the right to prohibit guns in the workplace regardless of the law? Sure they do. I'm not sure what some of you guys are thinking.

Devil's advocate here....so an employer can say "if you drink beer on the weekend, at your own house and responsibly, I won't hire you"? Sounds smart to me.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Leon

Interesting discussion and another slow news day so I decided to use dictator privileges and move this to the front page where more folks can join in, if they so desire. Party on......

I have no opinions that I'd like to share about what hippies do in their spare time, which is all the time, but I did think it was funny when I saw Leon posted at exactly 4:20

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's not an issue at all. Ammendment 64 will still allow an employer the right to restrict the use of marijuana by employees and refuse employment to those that use it. It's kind of like this. Colorado also has a concealed handgun law (right to carry). Don't employers have the right to prohibit guns in the workplace regardless of the law? Sure they do. I'm not sure what some of you guys are thinking.

I disagree. It is and will be an issue. An employer can prohibit guns in the workplace from a security/safety perspective but cannot prohibit someone from owning a gun. Likewise, I believe it will be difficult for employers to prohibit the use of marijuana outside the workplace if it is legalized as long as the employee doesn't show up high. Much like you can drink all you want at home but can't show up drunk. Watch for the first court case wherein an employee is fired for failing a drug test due to marijuana use a state where it is legal and see the sparks fly.

jeff

[2dueces]

I'm a child of the 60's so you know where I stand on this.

The big problem and it's always been the same but no one brings it up.
Here it is in a nutshell. This country's economy is oil and drug crime based.
Legalize pot and it takes a huge chunk of the economy. Not as many cases, not as many lawyers, judges, cops, jails, jailers.
That's the main reason this country does not legalize drugs. They continue to throw Billions at the war on drugs and fail but it keeps all these people employeed. Imagine a country with less crime because we don't need a black market for drugs? Well the economy would implode.
It is said they will get 50 million in tax revenue from legal pot but spend 500 million on health costs. I say bull. As for me, my days of drug use are long over but to see people still going to jail for a couple of joints is criminal.

[rdwyer]

Medical marijuana should be sold at Police stations. No. Strike that. The cops would steal it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I disagree. It is and will be an issue. An employer can prohibit guns in the workplace from a security/safety perspective but cannot prohibit someone from owning a gun. Likewise, I believe it will be difficult for employers to prohibit the use of marijuana outside the workplace if it is legalized as long as the employee doesn't show up high. Much like you can drink all you want at home but can't show up drunk. Watch for the first court case wherein an employee is fired for failing a drug test due to marijuana use a state where it is legal and see the sparks fly.

jeff

I'm not saying it couldn't be challenged, but I'm not sure that the employee would win. Maybe an attorney can chime in. However, if an employer can fire an employee for other things they do outside of work (I could name several, but FaceBook postings come to mind), I'm pretty sure an employer can impose their own marijuana policies.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

legalizing marijuana would be an indication of our country sliding UP.

shouldnt have been illegal in the first place.

You can thank William Randolph Hearst for that...............

[wazoo]

As a teenager, I find it an issue to those under the age of 18. It truly needs to be monitored, especially those who are minors. I am strongly against the usage of marijuana and studies have proven it quite damaging to adolescents. Just thought I would chime in with my perspective.

[MacDice]

I don't think that the money raised by the legalization of pot is going to be as much as people think? It will be taxed at an extremely high rate and the number of locations that it will be available will be limited thus most people are probably not going to buy it through the "legal" outlets. If it stays legal, it will be taxed at 25% in the state of Washington. It will be interesting since it is federal law trumps state law...

I had something poignant to say but just forgot

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by MacDice

I don't think that the money raised by the legalization of pot is going to be as much as people think? It will be taxed at an extremely high rate and the number of locations that it will be available will be limited thus most people are probably not going to buy it through the "legal" outlets. If it stays legal, it will be taxed at 25% in the state of Washington. It will be interesting since it is federal law trumps state law...

You understand there are more places to buy marijuana in Colorado than Starbucks?

This in every sense of the word is a "cash crop".

[cubsfan-budman]

Well, I dont think that places to get it will be limited. In Colorado you can grow. Everyone who grows is a potential "dealer"...and there's no way to tax those transactions, any more than you can tax my homebrew beer.

That said, I'd guess that most sales would happen through the normal means, especially after the novelty of growing/harvesting/drying/etc wears off.

[jcmtiger]

Maybe I missed in this in one of the prior posts. Anyone trying to be hired by a company for a job will be tested for drugs. If they test positive for drugs no job. Does this not concern anyone? Legalized in Colorado, more people out of work.
Joe

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by SmokyBurgess

The O.T. has many warnings about things that impair (mostly drink), but marijuana could certain be substituted very easily.
I can see why the world Biblical view would be at odds with the secular views and I think that is reflected on this post. Not surprising really.

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I stand with you.

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Genesis 1:11
Genesis 1:12
Genesis 1:29

Sincerely, Clayton

Taking your insinuations that referencing these verses out of context is supposed to mean that God gave us "grass" for our pleasure, I would respond that the vegetation that this thread refers to most likely began in Genesis 3:18 instead.

[kmac32]

Really only an issue if they are using pre war cards as rolling papers.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Maybe I missed in this in one of the prior posts. Anyone trying to be hired by a company for a job will be tested for drugs. If they test positive for drugs no job. Does this not concern anyone? Legalized in Colorado, more people out of work.
Joe

lots of jobs don't test for drugs when you get hired...

none test for legal drugs, that i know of.

[packs]

Should be legal. Let's get people out of jail who don't belong, save billions on the taxes we all pay to take care of them, and let's start being a capitalist society again.

The only reason its even illegal is because of that greedy dope Hearst. Seems silly to continue this charade 80 plus years later. It's not ruining anyone's life but the lives the justice system has ruined by labeling them criminals.

Also, I have a medical need and prescription for it here in California. But if I were to take a drug test and fail I could legally be fired and barred from collecting unemployment, even though a medical doctor has prescribed the medication. I can take all the opiates and synthetic heroin I want legally with a prescription and never get fired. But not marijuana? Please.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I stand with you.



Taking your insinuations that referencing these verses out of context is supposed to mean that God gave us "grass" for our pleasure, I would respond that the vegetation that this thread refers to most likely began in Genesis 3:18 instead.

It depends on how you read it. And, I never said God gave us "grass" for our pleasure. So, I don't think I took anything out of context. "Seed bearing plant, seed bearing herb...." I guess everyone is free to determine what that means for themselves, right?

Sincerely, Clayton

[glchen]

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

It depends on how you read it. And, I never said God gave us "grass" for our pleasure. So, I don't think I took anything out of context. "Seed bearing plant, seed bearing herb...." I guess everyone is free to determine what that means for themselves, right?

Sincerely, Clayton

I know you didn't say it, but the insinuation was there. I could keep going, but I don't come here to discuss dope, I come here for the awesome vintage baseball card discussion!

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

[19cbb]

Dazed and Confused...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

Good suggestion.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

I don't know you or anything about your experiences, but this sounds like the words of someone who's never tried marijuana. Marijuana and cocaine are completely different. Someone who was interested in the "high" that marijuana gives them wouldn't look to cocaine for something similar. That's like saying that drinking coffee makes you want to try cocaine. They're far more alike.

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

I know you didn't say it, but the insinuation was there. I could keep going, but I don't come here to discuss dope, I come here for the awesome vintage baseball card discussion!

No problem I look at this conversation more about "freedom" and "liberty", and it's a good talking point- I could care less about dope. But, I'm all for the people having the freedom and liberty to do it, if that's what they want to do with themselves. Same way I feel about just about everything, as long as someone is not hurting someone else in the process.

Sincerely, Clayton

[glchen]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I don't know you or anything about your experiences, but this sounds like the words of someone who's never tried marijuana. Marijuana and cocaine are completely different. Someone who was interested in the "high" that marijuana gives them wouldn't look to cocaine for something similar. That's like saying that drinking coffee makes you want to try cocaine. They're far more alike.

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

I will admit that I have never tried marijuana and I have also never tried smoking. I do drink with friends, however. I also drink coffee every now and then.

Please educate me. Are you saying that marijuana is basically the same as caffeine? So right now, people can drink coffee and drive at the same time. So are you saying that people should be allowed to drive and smoke pot at the same time? It's not that much different? Also, I believe pregnant women are allowed to drink coffee on a limited basis. So you would say, they can also smoke pot every now and then? No problems?

[barrysloate]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D44pyeEvhcQ

Cab Calloway, circa 1933. Enjoy!

[z28jd]

At least this is baseball card and topic related. Proof that Topps has a sense of humor. Brandon Puffer and Jung Bong on the same rookie card

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

I haven't smoked in nearly 10 myself. I can agree with you about the origins of the "gateway" notion. However, I believe it's also a notion that has become somewhat credible nowadays. It lies simply in the potential upsale depending on the dealer.. Suck 'em in with weed, and then turn 'em on to something more profitable. I will concede that this is definitely NOT the case with all dealers though. Upon legalization, I believe that this upsale factor goes away..

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

That's not true - internet bullying, sarcasm and guilt trips are sometimes quite effective on the internet. Since joining this forum I've become a Democrat, become a huge fan of TPG's, and am even considering collecting black and white cards from the 1920's....all because of you guys.

[rainier2004]

Alright, you guys dont get the law. Substance use/abuse is NOT a protected class like gender, race, religion and an employer can hire/fire you for anything NOT protected. We have 2 local employers that test for cigarettes and fire those that test positive. If I am the employer, dont I have the right to hire who I want? As longer as substance use is not protected, they can always test for pot. Most employers test for pot b/c theyre insurance company requires it. I am not condoning this, but check the stats on people that use antidepressants versus those that dont in regards to overall insurance costs, days missed and other employer compensation. I could see a money counter excluding these "users" someday...legally they have the right. This class needs protection.

Second, there is a ton of revenue generated. Licensing fees to users and growers, fees for dispenceries and if it were fully legal there would be a helluva tax.

Third, the same choice thats given for alcohol and cigarettes should be allowed for pot. Alcohol affects several systems in your body, damage tends to be more permanent and we know about cigarettes. POT DOES NOT NEED TO BE SMOKED TO USED! The medical movement usually ingest orally and there are vaporizers that remove a large percentage of the junk. Pot lowers your WBC count...BFD for most people.

Last, whether I have or have not ever used is no ones business...just like my choice to do what I want as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. I could care less why someone may think its bad, immoral or should be illegal for religous or any other reason for the purpose of telling me how to lead my life. WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT I OR ANYONE ELSE DOES? I dont get it...homosexuality, pot, why would anyone care?

[teetwoohsix]

I posted this link earlier in this thread, and I beg all of you people who are against legalizing it to go to this site and educate yourselves to the failed war on drugs: http://www.leap.cc/

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Watch the 20 minute video of Jack Cole, giving you the STATISTICS. It's a real eye opener, and it gives you the bigger picture.

Sincerely, Clayton

[packs]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

I have to disagree with all these points. Beer commercials are on TV aren't they? Last year the WHO said alcohol killed approximately 2.5 million people. How can that not be worse?

Marijuana as a gateway drug was invented in the 90s by anti-drug companies, most of which were being subsidized by alcohol and tobacco companies.

Marijuana is a naturally growing plant that has been on this continent for at least 2,000 years and has been used medicinally by native cultures for just as long, if not longer than alcohol.