To Catalog or Not To Catalog Vintage Cards...

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Posted By: Brad Green

You went to your grandmother's house a few months ago. Your grandmother points to the kitchen table. On the kitchen table is a box with "Leon Luckey's Candy Bars" printed on top. You open the box to find one hundred different baseball cards. You have never seen these cards before. If they are real, you know you could possibly have something very valuable.

Your grandmother tells you that your late grandfather used to work for Leon Luckey's Candy Bar Company and brought these home one night many, many years ago. You spend the next few weeks/months researching these cards and this company. You talk to several people who used to work for this company. Your conclusion is that these cards were made in 1920. Based on conversations with workers from that company, you found out that only twenty of these sets were made before the company went bankrupt. Therefore, you know that you really do have something rare on your hands!

So what do you do?

Choice (1): Leave the cards in the box and don't say another word to anybody. (Therefore, you don't have them cataloged...)

Choice (2): You call Bob Lemke. You tell him all about the cards and your research. He catalogs the cards and they are listed in the 2007 Edition of SCD.

Please tell me which choice you would make and why you would make it.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bob Lemke is gone, so you can't call him anymore. That aside, it's a personal decision. If you are withholding information about the set because you want it to be more valuable, that's fine but in order to sell it you eventually will have to let the cat out of the bag. Maybe a little publicity would actually get collectors' juices flowing. It's a judgment call, no right or wrong answer.

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Posted By: jackgoodman

That's the catch 22. In order for it to have value, people must know about it and want it. You would have to tell someone. You would also have to stagger the release of the sets in order to not appear to be "flooding" the market.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

It all depends on what you mean by "catalog." Catalog used to mean the ACC catalog. It later came to mean the SCD catalog. Bob Lemke did a great job but space considerations still kept out vintage issues which many felt should be included while retaining things like the "1997 Skybox E-X2000 Essential Credentials" set. It will be interesting to see what happens to the SCD catalog with Bob gone. At what point will it be cheaper to issue the SCD catalog on disk as opposed to a phone book sized paper volume? Or will it be an online reference only at some point?

Was there a burnt sienna back, no-stats, "80 subjects," pastel background, uncancelled, throwing pose, "Old Put" overprint variation in your "find?" Aren't the Leon Luckeys a Texas issue?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I would have article written about them and appear in Beckett magazine, Old Cardboard or such. A lot of collectors would like to have published info before buying so they know the cards are genuine. In fact, some some collectors would require this. A good article would publicize and legitimize the cards, esecially if it quotes someone like Rob Lifson agreeing that they are legit.

I would either write the article or have my name included in the article, so no matter what happens on the market, my lasting fame is ensured. I would tell the editor, "Rob Lifson's a nice guy an all, but make sure my name is included first."

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Posted By: Brad Green

I never said that I had all twenty sets. I have just one set. Some of the other workers in the company were given the other 19 sets.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Some (very few) veteran boxing card collectors have told me that they were peeved that I catalogued cards and reported values for them because it made it harder for them to buy cards on the cheap. I thought long and hard about just that issue when I started writing, believe me. The decision to publish the data ultimately came down to what I felt was the purpose of this endeavor. People don't collect cards to hide them in attics and look at them when no one else knows and share them with no one. That isn't a hobby; it's masturbation. The growth of card collecting is a direct result of systematic efforts to catalog and then estimate the rarity of and price cards. Without cataloging there is no common lexicon for collectors to use to converse with one another about their cards, and without that common, systematized technical language, there is no interaction. Without interaction, there are no trades, no shows, etc. In sum, when I thought about it, I realized that hiding information doesn't help me as owner of the hidden cards and certainly doesn't help anyone else. Sure, I might theoretically miss out on a steal of a deal but in the long run my cards will be worth more and I will have a better time.

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Posted By: MINE'S MINT

well, if you have 1 of 20 sets ever produced of these cards then there is no way that the market could be "flooded".. if only 20 sets were produced then there are only 20 examples of each card in the whole world.. so since having the cards cataloged will not make them any less rare or in turn valuable.. it dosnt seem like there are any real negative aspects of the situation.. yes.. have a reputable magazine do an article about this new discovery.. but dont worry about the exposure of your sets existence causing them to be any less valuable.. if someone else comes out and says "hey i have these too".. then your cards will still hold their value because everyone will understand that there is the potential of no more then 20 of each card to EVER be discovered.. the only way that your cards would in any way lose their value is if a discovery was made proving that more then 20 sets were produced.. but since your research was performed at this particular issue of cards actual source.. and all signs point to 20.. there is really nothing to worry about in my opinion..

psa/dna authenticated signature -> Richard M.

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Posted By: MikeU

The entire premise of the origins of collecting was to share knowledge and organize or make the hobby better for future generations. This falls into my personal beliefs. It should be an honor to be the orginator and publisher of a new cataloged find.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I can use my e90-3 Hofman variation as an example. I made several attempts to sell the card on my own without getting catalogued and I could not get even $250 for the card. I went through the process to get the card catalogued and recognized as a new variation and card sold for $2750.

In some ways, it neat to own item that is uncatalogued, but at the same time, if you want to maximize your return, you need to have some publicity behind the find.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

I have to agree with Mike U. here. If I thought I had something meaningful to contribute to the knowledge base of the hobby I wouldn't hesitate to share it. New finds keep the hobby fresh and interesting for all of us. Scot

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Posted By: edacra

I can't think of a single reason to keep these a secret if your intention is to sell. Either way, you did the research, and it's a great story - so why not contribute that to the hobby you love? All that said these cards sound like test issues or sales samples for a card set that was never distributed. The burden is really on you to prove these cards legit.

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Posted By: WPA

Just remember that there is no such thing as bad publicity!!

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Posted By: Mike Campbell

I use the guides as guides. One chief reason to buy them and read them is to find out what is out there, what don't I know about, or what don't I own. We all know the prices are just guides. Sometimes not even close to reality. Both low or high. But without the SCD, there are many cards I would be unaware of. I own unc. cards. I couldn't care less about the price. I pay what I think they are worth. If I had my way, every card would be cat. so that everyone could be aware of all the cards in existance. I have had unc, things graded. I have one being graded as I type this. I do it purely for protection purposes. I don't care what grade they give it. If in fact they grade it at all. I have spoken to some people on this forum about this subject. The result was that most didn't care that unc. things be cata. So I didn't bother to inform anyone. I wish that weren't the case. I would like to see every pre war card in the book. Modern items, that is a different matter.

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Posted By: robert a

The only time I would keep something from other collectors is if I was still researching the set and planned to let the cat out of the bag in the near future.