Gone with the stain

[MGoBlue2007]

Hi everyone. New to the board. Did a little research but couldn't find a thread that's specifically talked about the company gone with the stain. Has anyone ever used them? Any thoughts on their services?

[irv]

Originally Posted by MGoBlue2007

Hi everyone. New to the board. Did a little research but couldn't find a thread that's specifically talked about the company gone with the stain. Has anyone ever used them? Any thoughts on their services?

IIRC, Leon banned them sometime ago?
Using a Google or duckduckgo search should give you everything you're after, however, like this one.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=273078

[raulus]

I'm sure many around here will have lots to say!

Particularly around the notion that it's appropriate to make changes to cards. Seems like we've had numberless debates over the range of acceptable activities, with a wide range of opinions. Most people seem to be sorta okay with soaking cards or using a nylon to take a gum stain off of a card. Maybe using a spoon to bend back a bent corner. But beyond that, it gets pretty contentious in a hurry. And many commentators also recommend disclosing any of these modifications to a potential buyer.

Having said that, from what I can tell, most people around here feel that the services provided by Gone with the Stain aren't appropriate for baseball cards. There have even been some posts casting a pox upon any cards subject to their services, hexing them to crumble into dust.

[cannonballsun]

The founder (Dick Towle) passed away a while back. I believe his family has continued the business. It should be easy to find with a Google search.
I have never used their service, so that's about all I have to add.

[Triton21]

Originally Posted by raulus

I'm sure many around here will have lots to say!

Particularly around the notion that it's appropriate to make changes to cards. Seems like we've had numberless debates over the range of acceptable activities, with a wide range of opinions. Most people seem to be sorta okay with soaking cards or using a nylon to take a gum stain off of a card. Maybe using a spoon to bend back a bent corner. But beyond that, it gets pretty contentious in a hurry. And many commentators also recommend disclosing any of these modifications to a potential buyer.

Having said that, from what I can tell, most people around here feel that the services provided by Gone with the Stain aren't appropriate for baseball cards. There have even been some posts casting a pox upon any cards subject to their services, hexing them to crumble into dust.

everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Triton21

everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Truth, always a fan of your Dad!

Hatters gonna hat, and you do you.

We have all types of people on this forum, but remember, they will boot you if they want to, or feel you are advertising without paying.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Triton21

everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

I’m guessing that you’re new(ish), based on the small number of posts you’ve made to date. So welcome to the fun house!

If you’re looking for adventure, there’s a thread on the main page about how every slabbed card has a story, with a link to some videos showing how various cards have been treated to improve their appearance. I’m sure the group would love to hear your thoughts about the posts in that thread.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Thoughts? Sure. Don't alter cards.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[G1911]

The business is centered on altering cards for people to then sell as if they weren’t restored. Done with a wink of legitimacy of course, they aren’t doing the fraud part themselves directly, but they know damn well what their service is for.

Many will heavily frown on people altering cards. Gone with the Stain isn’t soaking in water to remove cards from a scrapbook.

[NiceDocter]

Don’t mess with guys like this. They are basically in the business of altering cards to try and pass off as better for more money. Don’t think that they don’t ruin their fair share of not only cards but others reputations along the way for what they do. Steer clear if you want to keep your good name intact. Clear water soaking out of a scrapbook is not what they are all about.

[jchcollins]

Say what you will about guys like Dick Towle, but unless he was just lying - my understanding is that the large majority of cards he worked on did wind up grading fine with PSA and SGC afterwards. If it's really that untraceable, you have to be a purist several degrees further along the spectrum than I am I guess to object...

It would definitely be something under the category of "Don't try this at home, kids..." for me.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Say what you will about guys like Dick Towle, but unless he was just lying - my understanding is that the large majority of cards he worked on did wind up grading fine with PSA and SGC afterwards. If it's really that untraceable, you have to be a purist several degrees further along the spectrum than I am I guess to object...

It would definitely be something under the category of "Don't try this at home, kids..." for me.

That PSA and SGC are grossly incompetent doesn’t justify fraud and undisclosed alteration (which is what happens with the vast, vast majority of cards they doctor).

[Triton21]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

Don’t mess with guys like this. They are basically in the business of altering cards to try and pass off as better for more money. Don’t think that they don’t ruin their fair share of not only cards but others reputations along the way for what they do. Steer clear if you want to keep your good name intact. Clear water soaking out of a scrapbook is not what they are all about.

So Rocky since you know so much about gone with the stain And what we supposedly do I would like you to educate us and the baseball card world exactly what it is that you think we do!?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

The business is centered on altering cards for people to then sell as if they weren’t restored. Done with a wink of legitimacy of course, they aren’t doing the fraud part themselves directly, but they know damn well what their service is for.

Many will heavily frown on people altering cards. Gone with the Stain isn’t soaking in water to remove cards from a scrapbook.

I don't see any difference. Soaking cards is altering and those that do it don't disclose their alterations. They are no different than GWTS and those that use them. I wouldn't want a card that I knew was soaked, but I suspect that is why it is never revealed. That and they wouldn't want to have their cards graded Authentic by PSA or SGC.

[butchie_t]

Hmmm, sure seems like this was a drive by post just to shake the nest.

Butch Turner

[G1911]

Originally Posted by rats60

I don't see any difference. Soaking cards is altering and those that do it don't disclose their alterations. They are no different than GWTS and those that use them. I wouldn't want a card that I knew was soaked, but I suspect that is why it is never revealed. That and they wouldn't want to have their cards graded Authentic by PSA or SGC.

I don’t necessarily disagree in principle on soaking and don’t soak myself, but it’s certainly not the same thing as what Towle and his heirs do. There are clear differences, soaking is openly seen as acceptable by a majority of hobbyists. Towle’s operation is undeniable alteration and even most who do these things won’t deny it is.

Smoking a joint and selling 50 pounds of cocaine are both drug crimes, but they sure ain’t the same thing. Being able to bucket in the same category doesn’t make them “no different”.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don’t necessarily disagree in principle on soaking and don’t soak myself, but it’s certainly not the same thing as what Towle and his heirs do. There are clear differences, soaking is openly seen as acceptable by a majority of hobbyists. Towle’s operation is undeniable alteration and even most who do these things won’t deny it is.

Smoking a joint and selling 50 pounds of cocaine are both drug crimes, but they sure ain’t the same thing. Being able to bucket in the same category doesn’t make them “no different”.

I do not think that soaking is accepted by the majority of the hobby. Otherwise, those that do it would reveal that their cards were soaked. They keep it secret because they know it is wrong, while trying to convince others it isn't. Does the majority of the hobby accept "conserving" or is it just PWCC's customers?

You can say there are different degrees of altering cards, but they are still all altering cards. It is more like the difference between being a heroin dealer and selling prescription opiates. We can agree that what GWTS is doing is wrong, but that doesn't make other forms of card doctoring ok. GWTS started out as removing wax stains from the back of cards and many accepted it and tried to convince the hobby it was ok too.

[Triton21]

Originally Posted by G1911

The business is centered on altering cards for people to then sell as if they weren’t restored. Done with a wink of legitimacy of course, they aren’t doing the fraud part themselves directly, but they know damn well what their service is for.

Many will heavily frown on people altering cards. Gone with the Stain isn’t soaking in water to remove cards from a scrapbook.

Just out of curiosity since you know our business and how we do things how is it that we're removing cards from scrapbooks can you shed some light on our process and what we use if we're not using water? Since you supposedly have the answer already why don't you share to the world what you know.

[campyfan39]

*grabs popcorn

Originally Posted by Triton21

Just out of curiosity since you know our business and how we do things how is it that we're removing cards from scrapbooks can you shed some light on our process and what we use if we're not using water? Since you supposedly have the answer already why don't you share to the world what you know.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Triton21

Just out of curiosity since you know our business and how we do things how is it that we're removing cards from scrapbooks can you shed some light on our process and what we use if we're not using water? Since you supposedly have the answer already why don't you share to the world what you know.

I am sure your firm has used water to soak an item out. What I am saying is that this is not all you do - using an example of something which is and has been considered benign by the general hobby for a very long time. Your own website, advertising and testimonials makes it extremely clear you are doing far more; that's what you are openly selling.

I stand by what I said. You cannot possibly not know that most of these cards are being worked on to get past graders and then sold without disclosure of the work done. This is the problem and criticism I am making (well, made, you are rather late). The wink and the nod is that your family doesn't commit the fraud, but provides the enabling the service. I have yet to see people selling cards with open and honest disclosure of your alterations and work, for some mysterious reason the minority popcorn gallery here consistently refuses to address.

[campyfan39]

I am very interested in the debate and the opinions and conversations. For clarity, I haven't even removed wax stains with panty hose. Pushing a corner down with my finger is the only thing I have ever personally done with a card.

Originally Posted by G1911

I am sure your firm has used water to soak an item out. What I am saying is that this is not all you do - using an example of something which is and has been considered benign by the general hobby for a very long time. Your own website, advertising and testimonials makes it extremely clear you are doing far more; that's what you are openly selling.

I stand by what I said. You cannot possibly not know that most of these cards are being worked on to get past graders and then sold without disclosure of the work done. This is the problem and criticism I am making (well, made, you are rather late). The wink and the nod is that your family doesn't commit the fraud, but provides the enabling the service. I have yet to see people selling cards with open and honest disclosure of your alterations and work, for some mysterious reason the minority popcorn gallery here consistently refuses to address.

[Triton21]

Originally Posted by G1911

The business is centered on altering cards for people to then sell as if they weren’t restored. Done with a wink of legitimacy of course, they aren’t doing the fraud part themselves directly, but they know damn well what their service is for.

Many will heavily frown on people altering cards. Gone with the Stain isn’t soaking in water to remove cards from a scrapbook.

By all means can you please educate us all and tell us exactly what it is that you think we use for removing cards from scrapbooks?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Triton21

By all means can you please educate us all and tell us exactly what it is that you think we use for removing cards from scrapbooks?

You already did this lol. See post 60.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by MGoBlue2007

Hi everyone. New to the board. Did a little research but couldn't find a thread that's specifically talked about the company gone with the stain. Has anyone ever used them? Any thoughts on their services?

My thoughts:

They're card doctors. Their "service" of altering cards is something I would never use.

[bnorth]

Without GWTS there would be WAY WAY WAY less medium and high grade vintage cards. They used to advertise how many 52 Topps Mantle cards they worked on and it was a LOT.

Pretty much if you own very many vintage cards you own card(s) that have been made nicer looking. Nothing like a nice soak and press to improve the looks of a card, maybe a little eraser to remove a mark, or a plethora of other things.

[Exhibitman]

I'd not use them. I had them try to clean some paper crud off a rare boxing ticket so I could see the front and they not only failed to clean it, the chemicals they use damaged the cardboard. IMO they are not legitimate conservators but hacks.