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#1
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: ScottIngold
This is a link to some thoughts on where the Wagner came from. Throw in the history about an uncut sheet containing this and a Plank....... Well just real intersting reading. |
#2
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
I would prefer not to have links to other forums listed on this site, that are essentially doing the same thing this one does. There is no animosity towards those guys whatsoever and I wish them the best. As far as I know almost everyone over there posts on this board too, which is great. I will leave this one, no big deal, but would prefer not to have links posted to other sites in the future.....especially on the main forum. I have nothing against Jay and Scott for starting that one but the reason they started it is because of the banner ads on this one (and Scott and I hadn't kissed and made up yet ). I don't feel the banner ads have harmed this site at all, nor has anyone kept their mouth shut about anything (which is good too)....regards |
#3
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Josh Adams
"Throw in the history about an uncut sheet containing this and a Plank" |
#4
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted
Here is the Thread you initiated in 2005 that provides a lot of debate on this topic...... |
#5
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Scott Elkins
we are going to kiss (no offense - you have the wrong plumbing to be my type is all)! However, we have buried the hatchet and I am glad. |
#6
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Dave
Scott- |
#7
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
I also spoke to a hobby veteran (and board member) yesterday about this. To be very succinct it seems the card was cut from a sheet (most agree) and then cut again after that. The top border has never looked too straight to me...and I have seen it, through glass, but in person, many times....best regards (btw, I doubt any of this talk hurts the value) |
#8
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Scott Elkins
The PSA 8 Wagner has a Piedmont 150 back. In fact, there are around three Wagners that have Piedmont 150 backs - all three look hand cut at one time or another! |
#9
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Aaron
Found this is some interesting reading on this topic: http://www.thepit.com/Hub/PC_20010325.asp |
#10
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Dave
Wow...Why did I think all the Wagner's were Sweet Caporal? read that somewhere...I wonder if the "3" Piedmont 150's all were cut from sheets later..maybe never actually distributed? |
#11
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: barrysloate
The general theory is the Piedmont Wagners were never put into circulation. |
#12
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Josh Adams
"To be very succinct it seems the card was cut from a sheet (most agree) and then cut again after that." |
#13
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
I held the other single, Piedmont backed, Wagner a few weeks ago. To me it's definitely hand cut and the owner believes so too. It's a great card with some unique provenance.....It reeks of historical significance.... |
#14
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Dave
So are the three known cards with a Piedmont back all in great condition? |
#15
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Scott Elkins
I just posted a long-winded thread about my "theory" on the Piedmont Wagners on my board - not typing it again, as I am too lazy. You can all check it out if you wish - it should be at the bottom of the thread Scott posted the link to at the top of this thread (if that makes any sense!). |
#16
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Josh Adams
I mean, how can you tell a card is hand cut? what traits do you look for? |
#17
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Scott Elkins
The other two I have seen are no better than GD and were handcut. |
#18
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
I will not name names but I have spoken with at least a dozen hobby veterans about the history of the PSA8 Wagner...every single one of them says it was cut from a sheet. I am positive they are not all wrong or are all telling a story...So, it's not personally known by me, only told to me, and I believe it...hope this helps. |
#19
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Dave
But, does it really matter if the Wagner was handcut from a sheet? It would have been cut from a sheet as well in the factory....so does it matter if it happened a year later....20 years later...or 70 years later? It isn't like there has been any "altering"...right? |
#20
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Josh Adams
I don't think I'm explaining myself properly, I appologize. |
#21
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
Generally speaking a handcut card will have a waviness to one or more borders. |
#22
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: John S
The amazing thing is that it resides in a PSA 8 holder and is their advertising centerpiece. |
#23
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Jim Clarke
I guess the history of this card does no matter to potential buyers? You would think if you were going to spend over 500K on a card you might do a LITTLE research on it. Why does a trimmed, ALTERED card cut from a sheet represent the "Holy Grail" in our hobby?????????? Gazillionaires and corporations come in with BIG bucks to buy this card for social status reasons. If they even knew or cared about what they were really buying. |
#24
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: dennis
how can a card like this sneak past the slabbers? |
#25
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
This story with Wagner and Plank together on a PIEDMONT 150 sheet does not "jive" from what |
#26
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: peter chao
Jim, |
#27
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
I was just informed by good friend (definitely a veteran too) that the PSA 8 Plank was auctioned off by Mastro Auctions in 1999 and has a Sweet Cap back....There was another Plank in the Copeland sale that might have been the other high grade one. The PSA 8 Plank was definitely not associated with the PSA 8 Wagner, in that respect. Moderator status has it's privileges.... |
#28
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: barrysloate
A card cut in 1910 will have a certain aging to the front, back, and edges of the paper that will be consistent. |
#29
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#30
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: barrysloate
Pssst...no apostrophe in "its"...only because you asked |
#31
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: John
The only Plank I know associated with Copeland that was high grade was the below example which is also Sweet Caporal branded. |
#32
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: joe brennan
Looks like the owners of the Holy Grail could care less if it's been trimmed as long as it has PSA's blessing. -Funny with a this talk about cleaning up the hobby and here we have the most important card in the hobby shrouded with rumors of being trimmed and it still fetches over $2M. |
#33
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
Darn it....I guess I will never get the apostrophe thing down pat. For the record I was also just informed that there is definitely a 4th Wagner with a Piedmont back too.....I learn something new everyday. |
#34
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: John
The Plank on the left missing color is in fact one of the Piedmont branded Planks that do exist. It was part of the Halper sale of 1999. Its brother on the right was sold in a Heritage auction this year and was a Sweet Caporal backed card. |
#35
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: barrysloate
Leon- finding out about a 4th Wagner with a Piedmont back "supersedes" missing an apostrophe! |
#36
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Dave
All the money being tossed around...I need to go do some yard sale strolling this weekend....find some little old lady with a Plank or Wagner with a red hindu back....ahem. |
#37
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#38
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Dave
yes...I shouldn't get greedy. |
#39
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: joe
T206 Plank, |
#40
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Brian Weisner
Hi Dave, |
#41
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: leon
My "friend" really does know more than most anyone in the hobby, imho. I have been very, very luckey to be associated with some of the greatest guys in the hobby. I thank Scott B. and Doug Allen for that. Scott has really taken me under his wing as I was an infant in the hobby 10 years ago...and Doug has been extemely nice to me in being very gracious and included me in things where I got to meet some hobby icons. (even though he did put me on hold one night for about 10 minutes when Bill called , not that I blame him ....) best regards |
#42
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
We haven't had this thread (trimmed PSA8 Wagner T206) in a while. It's like Alice's restaraunt on Thanksgiving. Only Thanksgiving comes to the N54 VBC more often. |
#43
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Dave
If we are going to get any more stories started...I'd like to get one going. |
#44
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: John
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVxN5iQ_Ri0&mode=related&search= |
#45
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Kevin
"All I want to know, for my own education, is how can a person tell a card is handcut from looking at it? what traits do you look for? How do you know it's handcut as opposed to just a poor cut by the machine, or whatever did the cutting in 1910?" |
#46
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: t206museuem admin
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#47
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Aaron
Was piedmont Plank card graded as trimmed? |
#48
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: Jim Clarke
Peter, Here is scenario that might have happend (IMO). Let's say Brian Segal won the card and then realized what the history was on it. Both PSA and the auction company would not want a sale of the "Holy Grail" to be tainted. SO maybe the card went on "Tour" with PSA over the years. Maybe PSA bought it back or guaranteed Brian to get all his money back when he sold it after a certain time frame. This way everyone is happy and everyone will do their best to keep the hype going on the altered trimmed PSA 8 Wagner card (IMO). I have seen the card in person. I'm sure if it was cracked out, and an expert looked at the sides of the card, it would be clear that it was cut down to size within the last 40 years. |
#49
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: John
Well I didn’t want to blow the lid off this thing yet but I have been doing extensive research on the card in question. What I have found may surprise you; I can let you in on a few of my findings, which are all available in my new book. Please send $24.95 for the full story. |
#50
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Very interesting history on the Wagner psa 8/trim
Posted By: barrysloate
The "Hona" Lisa is a riot! |
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