wtb: t207 cycle back

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Posted By: Pete Z.

common in good-ish condition. Have stuff to trade as well.

Thanks,
Pete

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Posted By: Bob

Pete- No common exists with the Cycle back. The commons all have Recruit, Napoleon or one of the factory Anonymous backs.
tbob

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Posted By: leon

Hey Bob,
Not to really get into a discussion over here, and I hope Pete finds his card, but what do you consider a common?

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Posted By: Bob

leon- Good question. The cards with Cycle, Broadleaf and Anonymous Factory backs only are definitely not "commons" and are considered scarce. That leaves the cards which were only issued with Recruit and Napoleon backs. (For purposes of this discussion, the Anonymous Factory backs, I am at work and am forgetting the number of the Factory, which are issued hypothetically on any card, common or scarce are omitted). Of that group of Recruits and Napoleon backs only, the Napoleon back is a tough back, but if we are talking only about the fronts, that entire group is generally considered a common with a few exceptions. Graham, Ellis, Kling, George and Scott are 5 which come to mind immediately which are tough, and although "commons," are hard to find, especially in nice shape. There are a few more I have forgotten off-hand (some consider Schulte tougher than normal among commons).
What's particularly odd is that a few HOFers appear all the time (Marquard, etc.) Because HOFs can't technically be considered "commons" the general abundance of these cards must not be considered.
So, I would consider a T207 common one with a Recruit back, not a HOFer, and not one of the 6-7 toughies. Clear as mud? If we get in to the oddball Anonymous Factory back we really open up a can of worms which would take pages to detail

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Posted By: Mike Frohme

Bob has summarized it right on - as always.

Tim Newcomb's VCBC articles proposed that two series of the Recruit-class cards may have been printed - the second of which was 50 subjects. The 100 remaining Recruit-class cards might be considered the "commons", though the list has a few cards that certainly aren't that easy.

Whether that's the case or not, we may never know, but there are certainly degrees of difficulty in the Recruits - some of which are as hard or harder than a good # of the Broadleaf class subjects. I also agree with Bob that the Anon Factory 3 and 25's are another matter altogether.

Here's that list of the remaining 100 (w/out variations) - in increasing order of Tim's "number of appearances" (i.e. approximately hardest to easiest) in his 2002-2004 (if I recall) survey - read the articles for the details and what that number means... its really good reading if you're into T207.

CallahanNixey 28
KnetzerElmer 28
TooleyBert 29
GowdyHank 30
NorthenHub 30
DanforthDave 34
LappJack 34
MillerDots 34
ScanlonBill 34
SmithWally 34
StackEddie 34
StrunkAmos 34
CollinsJohn35
OakesRebel 35
BargerCy 36
DaubertJake 36
MarsansArmando 36
MorganCy 36
PaskertDode 36
SevereidHank 36
WarhopJack 36
BescherBob 37
HallinanEd 37
LordBris 37
NeedhamTom 37
O'TooleMarty 37
StanageOscar 37
ErwinTex 38
EvansLouis 38
FrommeArt 38
TannehillLee 38
BarryJack 39
CamnitzHowie 39
ClarkeTommy 39
AinsmithEddie 40
BradleyHugh 40
DerrickClaud 40
HenriksenOlaf 40
MullinGeorge 40
WilsonArt 40
DavisHarry 41
GoldenRoy 41
GraneyJack 41
McIntireHarry 41
O'BrienBuck 41
SteinfeldtHarry 41
BallNeal 42
ColeKing 42
CoulsonBob 42
KrauseHarry 42
OldringRube 42
VaughnHippo 42
KalerGeorge 43
ReulbachEd 43
DoyleLarry 44
FisherRay 44
LennoxEd 44
TinkerJoe 44
CareyMax 46
FerryJack 46
McLeanLarry 46
SimonMike 46
WheatZack 46
ChanceFrank 47
MoranPat 47
GainorDel 48
TurnerTerry 48
KonetchyEd 49
YerkesStanley 49
AustinJimmy 50
CrandallDoc 50
HarmonBob 50
LivingstonPaddy 50
OlsonIvy 50
FletcherArt 51
GardnerLarry 51
WolvertonHarry 51
CovingtonTex 52
WalkerDixie53
LathamArlie 55
McBrideGeorge 55
BeckerBeals 56
MilanClyde 56
BenderChief 57
ByrneBobby 57
DevlinArt 57
ChalmersGeorge 59
DevoreJosh 60
DelahantyJim 61
LivelyJack 61
StreetGabby 61
WilieDewey 64
SchaeferGermany 66
DooinRed 69
WiltseHooks 69
KnabeOtto 74
MarquardRube 75
BresnahanRoger 80
McGrawJohn 81
JohnsonWalter 89

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Posted By: Mike Frohme

As an afterthought ...

Leon - why is the Weaver Red Cross not in that wonderful shot?

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

First of all, thanks, Mike, for those kind words about my article. Good to know it's still on the radar with some collectors.

The "common" debate:

I think the term is ambiguous. It could refer to common players or to common cards within the set. Clearly there are no common Cycle backs in that second sense. Most of the players found with Cycles are, however, common. Maybe that's what the OP meant?

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Posted By: leon

My only thought on the "common" thought was that it was, as in other series, common as opposed to HOF'er. That was what I thought when I posted the scan above of the back of Birmingham, who of course, didn't make the hall.

I have also read Tim N's great article written on the subject(several times) so, while I haven't memorized the article, know that many of the scarcest cards also have the most common backs, as as well as Cycle, and other more difficult backs.....anyway, sorry about that....


ps...Mike- The Weaver has his own scan

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Posted By: Rob D.

Leon,

When you say "his own scan," does that mean he is quarterless?

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Posted By: leon

Pete- hope you don't mind a little chatter in your BST thread.....maybe it will help you pick one up?

Rob- no quarter in the Red Cross scan. Generally (not always) I only put the quarter in scans where the card size might not be well known....

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Posted By: Michael Steele

Pete, I hope you do find the Cycle back card you are looking for. I know this is the B/S/T but I found the conversation above very interesting. This set is fast becoming my favorite. There is mystery, rareness (compared to the monster) and back variation debates.

I have just about completed my Red Sox subset (regardless of back) and there are upwards of 20 Red Sox in the set and only 4 are listed in the 100 "common Recruit" list posted above. Meaning the rest probably fall into the perceived tough Recruit series.

Tim, if your still reading, I would love to read your article(s). How could I go about finding them? Thanks in advance.