NY Daily News Artcile

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Big article in today's paper about Plancich's war against the authenticity of The Streak bat. Adam Warshaw is quoted, along with mention of this forum, as well.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/271656p-232674c.html

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Posted By: jay behrens

Interesting read, to say the least. It's also interesting that because of Robert's action, Bushing will now disclose if he is the owner of something he authenticated. Hell, this shouldn't even be happening. Anything he owns should be authenticated independently. That's like an eBay seller authenticating his find of grandpa's cards in the attic with an uncatalogued set of cards.

This whole thing still stinks and doesn't make H&B, Bushing, or MAstro look very good.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: PASJD

I don't recall knowing Robert had been sued before reading this article. Did he tell us? If not I wonder why he chose not to. I would be very interested to know what the causes of action are (some sort of trade libel?) and what relief H and B is seeking. How will H and B prove Robert's remarks are "defamatory" which I presume they would need to in order to prevail on any cause of action? Will Dave Bushing come into court and testify the bat is in fact what he authenticated it to be even though he happened to omit to mention that he had an ownerhsip interest in it? Will 93 year old Tommy Henrich testify? As the opening line in Evita goes (Joe P. hope you appreciate the Broadway reference), oh what a circus, oh what a show.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I think Adam's quote in the article sums it up pretty good, H&B isn't interested in the truth, they are only interested in shutting him up. Hopefully, CA's SLAPP law will apply and H&B will get a beat down for it.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

The causes of actions I'm sure will be based in the alleged damage to business relations or simply libel. Regardless, even if Plancich is 100 percent wrong, the fact that Bushing didn't reveal his ownership of the bat is disgraceful. I guess greed and venality get in the way of honesty every time.

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Posted By: PASJD

His non-disclosure surely was a "mistake." After all, he said he was appreciative that Robert had pointed it out. Don't ya believe 'im?

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Posted By: leon

As I oft say lately, in many different instances and venues, "the truth stands on it's own"..."timelessly".....regards all

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Posted By: Josh Evans

H&B should be ashamed of themselves
They are going after Plainchich who is actually trying to do some good (albeit not always going about it in the most tactful manner)

They are so concerned about their legacy and this museum?
This is the same company that when I spoke to Mr. Hillerich in 1993 was completely unaware of the fact that one of their top execs (Rex Bradley) had "appropriated" their legacy of thousands of bats including such important game used bats as ones used by Ruth, Jackson, Cobb and so many more
In fact, Bradley has sold them within the hobby in at least two famous huge transactions that total into the hundreds of thousands of dollars
Most major bat collectors are aware of this and the company is not?

And then H&B buys a questionable DiMaggio streak bat that has been authenticated AND graded by Dan Bushing and Dan Knoll who also happen to own it
I wonder who placed the bid for H&B?
And who was the underbidder?
Adirondack?
Draper & Maynard?
Horace Partridge?

And then didn't H&B sell all that great old stuff from the company archives through Hunt's to pay for this questionable DiMaggio streak bat
To my knowledge Bushing engineered that consignment
It would not surpise me (it is common auction practice in a deal such as this) that Bushing would make a healthy commission on delivering this plum consignment to Hunt (this is no knock on Hunt)

Who is running the ship here
Will the bats be stamped Hillerich & Bushing for now on?

The emperor has no clothes AND no bats
Josh

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, I have a stump of wood here that I am willing to authenticate as the wood that grew the bat that Black Betsy came from. I also have some paper here that I am willing to authenticate is actually United States currency. So what's the problem? Bushing is a fraudster, plain and simple. A lie of omission is a lie, period. I would also direct him to hire a lawyer and sue me for this scandalous comment. I have my own law firm and would love to rip his ass in a videotaped deposition....

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Posted By: leon

hook, hook, jab, jab, left hook........

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jeff, you can actually use that paper as currency if someone is willing to take it. There is no govermental restriction on who can make money. It's all a matter of whether anyone will accept it. The only restriction is that you cannot forge or copy government made money. Down South, there is a regional currency that is used in a lot of small towns. Just saw the story on TV a few weeks ago. Was really interesting.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Living in Louisville and having some connections around, I've heard about a number of things involving Rex Bradley and others and many of the larger auction houses (few are immune.....). Clandestine sales of bats, documents, etc.....large sums of money changing hands for items sold not only in auctions but also behind the scenes to collectors. Guess the exponential growth of this stuff in the 1980's/1990's enabled some folks out there who might have engaged in some less than 'honorable' business practices. Unfortunately for H&B, their lack of control of their own 'treasures' cost them dearly.........

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, Jay, bartering is also a form of currency exchange but one cannot claim that toilet paper is United States issued currency even if someone would take it (although one can write a check on toilet paper and have it properly cashed). At least when Collectors Universe sells PSA graded cards, the relationship is out in the open. For Bushing to not reveal his link to the Streak bat is absolutely incredible. Even if Plancich is wrong on every thing he has ever said, Bushing's behavior was worse. At least Plancich isn't making any cash off his comments.

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Posted By: PASJD

Jeff has put his finger on the issue. There are two types of misrepresentations. The more obvious one is saying something is true when you know that it is false, or you don't really know one way or another. The more subtle, but equally insidious, one is failing to disclose a fact that would be material to the buyer's decision. Surely the fact that the same guy who has "authenticated" a bat has an ownership interest in it is material. Surely the fact that a card has been "cleaned" or "stabilized" to the point that it looks completely different from the card that was consigned to the auction house is material. Surely the fact that a prominent auction house has an ongoing relationship with an "outside conservator" is material. I suspect the outright lies still occur, but what has become increasingly apparent to me is that fraud is being committed via the non-disclosure/"omission" route as well. And I don't expect it to change either. Power, and money, corrupt. Deny, deny, deny. Oh, and when someone stands up to you? Sue them.

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Posted By: Jason

I always figured Robert was doing a good...

"And as a result of Plancich's constant criticism, Bushing says, his authentication service will now inform clients when it owns a piece it is authenticating. "He's been a big help in a lot of ways," Bushing says. "I just wish he would do it in a positive way, and not be so vindictive."

It seems the hobby has been pretty vindictive at having someone call BS on their product offerings.

I hope he can get properely defended for this case. It seems silly that the bat buyer would sue the guy who brought attention to the possible lack of authenticity in this bat. Wouldn't and shouldn't they be more interested in persuing someone who authenticated this bat and then didn't disclose that they were the actual owner?

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Posted By: Paul

Reading Josh's post, it is amazing to me to think that the world's best source of unquestionably authentic H&B bats effectively traded a large portion of those bats for a single bat that has at best questionable authenticity. Irony aside, shouldn't they be suing Bushing, rather than Robert?

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Posted By: John Basilone

Marshall Fogel's comments quite interesting.

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Posted By: dennis

i agree w/jason& paul, if it was my $350k i'd be looking into hiring a lawyer to sue the seller/authenticator and thanking robert,but i guess h&b's motive is money. they must think they can make plenty by getting people to pay to see "the bat" thinking it's joe dimag's genuine "dave bushing says so streak bat". gee it's funny how ol dave never thought of conflict of interest til robert kindly pointed it out to him.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yeah, Dave Bushing sounds real sincere when he claims that Plancich has been helpful. About as sincere as a fox in a henhouse. Bushing and his slimy ilk are about as believeable as a WWE championship wrestling "match": everything is predtermined based upon maximum financial gain.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Anyone that can help Robert out with this should do all they can. I sent Robert copies of an article I used for my research and a copy of Cramer's DiMaggio bio. This is clearly an organized attempt, by more than just H&B to silence Robert.

Dan

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Posted By: jay behrens

Let's not forget, H&B has a vested interest in Mr Bushing since, if I remember correctly, he is the only person that has access to H&B manufacture and sales records.

This whole deal stinks to high heaven. Bushing authenticates a bat that he owns and is the only person with access to records of the company that made and ultimately purchased the bat. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that the only reason the bat went auction instead of being sold privately was for all the publicity that the auction and sale would generate.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bushing's statement that he will inform prospective clients when he has authenticated something he is selling is beyond outrageous. A major authenticator should never ever be in the business of selling and authenticating his own material. The disclosure is worthless. If he is in fact an expert authenticator, and I believe he knows his stuff, then he must irrevocably get out of the selling business. It's one or the other, but not both. Could you imagine PSA setting up at the the National to sell PSA graded baseball cards? They would be out of business in a heartbeat. That's what Alan Hager used to do with his ASA graded cards, and people know where he was at. If collectors can't see the egregious conflict here than they are setting themselves up to be swindled at some point down the road.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

So Alan Haeger has the same reputation in sports cards that he has in coins huh?

Dan

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Posted By: barrysloate

I remember him from the coin business and he was forced to leave there and baseball cards was the natural progression for his nefarious dealings. He since left this business and god only knows what he is scheming today.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

eBay, what else!

Username: ah-collectibles

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Posted By: Judge Dred

"Game used" and "autograph authentication"?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I was asked to comment by the reporter and I did.

Here's how I see things: H&B made the bat a public issue by buying the bat with great fanfare and issuing all kinds of press releases and getting all kinds of nifty free publicity as a result. Now that the bona fides of the bat are being questioned, H&B is engaged in typical corporate a-hole behavior. Attack the critic rather than address the problem squarely and fairly. I think after reading the complaint that the case is a ripe one for a SLAPP motion.

I have a copy of the complaint at the office. I will post some excerpts from it tomorrow. It is a public record and anyone who wants it can get from the LA courts if they have the case number, which I will post too.

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Posted By: MW

"This appears to be an attempt to shut up a critic of the industry," says Dennis Esken, the nation's foremost glove expert. "What Robert is doing is good for the hobby. It's just not good for their business."

Dennis knows his stuff and I agree him.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Could you imagine PSA setting up at the the National to sell PSA graded baseball cards? They would be out of business in a heartbeat.

They did it for years without any backlash. They even went public with full disclosure. The company was Superior Sports Cards, and despite doing it for years before actually letting the public know, there was no damage to their reputation.

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Posted By: MW

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Posted By: PASJD

I knew PSA had a subsidiary/affiliate that ran auctions, but I always assumed the cards were consignments and not cards in which PSA or Superior or Greg Bussineau had a direct ownership interest. Perhaps I was naive? Now if they were in effect grading and selling their own cards, not to mention publishing a highly influential price guide, well, that is "interesting."

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Posted By: MW

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Posted By: PASJD

I guess the apologists would say "nobody's perfect" and "stop bashing PSA." What used to bother me about PSA was their old practice of handing out "bumps" to dealers at shows, given that "bumping" a card is in effect an admission that it was improperly graded the first time. While I am sure some of the cards were not egregiously overgraded in their new slabs, it seemed unfair given the obvious favoritism involved.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Big difference re PSA/Superior. It was public information that the two were linked-unlike Bushing who just figured that he was given a money tree and why not abuse the public in order to pad his pockets. If Bushing were an executive in a publicly traded corporation, he'd be fired for self-dealing; if he were a lawyer he'd be brought up on ethics charges. Because he is in an unregulated industry, he can flap his gums to a reporter like a schmuck and claim to be above the very fray that his borderline criminal behavior caused.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Superior was affiliated with CU well before CU became CU. I knew one of the guys who did buying for PSA and he would run around shows with a fat checkbook buying up all of the high end examples of cards in PSA 7's and PSA 8's. I know this because I was in possession of plenty of them. I suspect those cards were all bumped.

At the last National in Anaheim, CA CU had a booth at the back of the room where they were blowing out the remains of raw cards from a enormous vending unopened case/box run of cards in which they spent in excess of a million bucks.

I never understood how they were given the "ok" to go public with the conflict of interest that existed-retail, authenticating, price guide, etc. In fact, my recollection is that in the prospectus it said that money from the IPO was being held for purchases of inventory. Got to love the SEC for looking out for creditors and investors.

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Posted By: John Basilone

I know this is comparing apples to oranges (modern vs. vintage) but Beckett sells its own graded modern cards....right on their website.

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Posted By: Paul

A grading company that grades its own cards is bad. But an authenticator who authenticates his own stuff is far worse. The most a grading company can do is overgrade by one or two grades. Anything more extreme would be easily noticed and the grader would quickly lose all credibility. But an authenticator can take the FAKE and deem it REAL.

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Posted By: MW

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Grading companies are placing altered cards in graded holders all of the time either by lack of experience or alterations getting so good that they get buy what ever examination is being done. The public knows this yet people still collect and submit. The impact of this awareness has not had any adverse impact on their revenues or number of submissions.

History has demonstrated that sports card and memorabila collectors have been more than willing to accept almost any scandal. Is it the greed or passion of the collector that permits this?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

My feeling has long been that all that matters with an LOA is the accuracy of the opinion. There are people with conflicts of interest who give good judgements, and there are people with no conflicts of interst who have no idea what they are talking about.

If collectors worry about these things, they should collect things they can, or are learning how to, make their own solid judgements about. Subjects they can get a handle on, even if they aren't the world's expert ... Even if he regularly uses PSA or SGC, a longtime 1971 Topps collector doesn't depend on a grader to tell him if a 1971 Topps is original. ... If a fan goes up to Natalie Portman and gets her autograph, the fan doesn't need PSA/DNA to tell her the autograph is real ... It doesn't matter that I have no clue how to authenticate 14th century Chinese vases, because I collect 20th century photographs.

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Posted By: MW

Hillerich and Bradsby's lawsuit against Robert alleges the following:

"Plaintiff has chilled the usual course of events in obtaining and displaying memorabilia, inasmuch as H&B has delayed the display of the Bat because of Plancich's actions and threats."

"Each day that the museum delays display of the Bat, H&B loses money through loss of Museum guests. If Defendant continues to discredit the authenticity of the Bat, or of other memorabilia in general, values could be decreased by unknown proportions which will certainly be injurious to Hillerich & Bradsby's right of quiet enjoyment."


Question: Does anyone else see the logical contradiction here? Wouldn't the added controversy make the general public MORE interested in coming to a museum and viewing a bat which has caused so much consternation among hobby experts and spawned multiple news articles? If museum revenue is truly what is at stake here, shouldn't H&B be capitalizing on recent events and IMMEDIATELY make the bat a prominent part of their museum display? They could even have Mastro do the official write-up.

Who wouldn't pay to see such a thing? I know I would.

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Posted By: steve

The kin folk said I outta get outta there so I loaded up my old Gehrig bat in the truck and headed in here. again, baseball nuts, shady dealings, you all come back now...Banjo takes me out..........

I just wrote post about my intentions to sell a sweet Hanna Batrite Lou Gehrig bat and see this. More controversy? See Need advice Gehrig bat

Hope you members realize another 2 or 3% of my adult life will be invested in reading another posts, threads or whatever else you maniacs(kiddingly to most of you anyway) produce for me to read and try to absorb.

I'll say this again we're talking millions and millions of dollars, involving worldwide public traded companies and in general dealing in childhood memories or items originally included with a stick of bubblegum
Yikes

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Posted By: Joe P.

You are lumping slabheads and collectors together.
Most slabheads get their cards graded for potential monetary gains via resale. (nothing wrong with that)

Whereas collectors aren't that bright.
Their addiction compels them to buy the card, preferably unslabbed.
I have found myself cracking slabs in order to free the card for my collection.

Graders count on the slabheads business.
One greed feeds the other, thus The Stabilizers of the world.

Greg, I know not where you stand, but as for me, having fought and won that battle once before, this COLLECTOR stands with Robert Plancich.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I am a COLLECTOR. However, I like to get most of my cards in my collection slabbed. I do this for two reasons - 1) I think it protects the cards better and looks nice for display, 2) Sometimes I have to sell cards in order to purchase other cards for my collection (slabbed cards are much easier to sell).

Second thought - As most of you know, I have sided with Mr. Plancich (I hope that is correct) from the start. Now, after being a recent victim of a scam (the eBay "second chance" scam), I believe even STRONGER in people whistle blowing on scams. Whether the scam is a PSA 8 Wagner, game used bat, or simply someone selling people items they don't have. ALL scams should be revealed - especially the ones where conflicts of interest are involved. I can understand a mistake (we all make them). However, this particular "authenticator" and some major auction houses have done a little too much for their actions to be considered mistakes!

One last thought - where is runscott??????????????????

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

I suppose I should have qualified what I wrote. I agree that some collectors do not buy graded cards or submit to grading companies. Those people are few and far between but they do exist.

As for Robert's efforts, I am all in favor of it. I know nothing about memorabilia and don't want to know anything about it but I applaud what he is doing and think the hobby would be far better off if more were made accountable for their actions.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I have little knowledge about baseball bats, have seen scant evidence from either side and simply do not know what is or isn't the bat. I hope people aren't taking sides who share my lack of knowledge.

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Posted By: Joe P.

Most slabheads - and I said it taking into consideration the good reasons that you have given.

However, I stand by what I say.
This forum is a perfect example.
The most FAQ by newbies and veterans is about grades and prices, or what slabber is the best investment.
Although my preference is a free card over an entombed one, I can easily see your point of view.

Greg:
You're helping me make my point.
I don't have the figures anymore than you do, but
I think you'll agree that there's a great deal of numerologist out there that are inadvertently encouraging the graders to bigger and better things. ..... the game isn't only in the memorabilia game. .... stabilization affects the card numbers, and who knows, maybe we'll get to read about it in The NY Daily News.

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Posted By: Joe P.

I haven't sided with anyone in the issue
January 17 2005, 4:47 AM


I have little knowledge about baseball bats, have seen scant evidence from either side and simply do not know what is or isn't the bat. I hope people aren't taking sides who share my lack of knowledge.


This message has been edited by davidcycleback on Jan 17, 2005 4:54 AM
*
*
Nope, Only You And Your Signature.

BTW why are you here?

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Posted By: Scott

This is one of the best threads I've seen on the board in a while, with all points of view (including the emotional uninformed) represented just fine.

I don't collect this type of item but I find the mentality of those who do very interesting - they "want to believe" so badly that they set themselves up for these situations. This comment by Marshall Fogel says it all: "There's no question it's debatable. It just depends on what side you want to fall on it. Louisville Slugger made the choice to believe the bat is real,"

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Case Number: GC034663. One cause of action: intentional interference with prospective advantage.

What appears to be the core of the claim [my comments in brackets]:

"Since that Spring 2004 purchase, defendant Plancich has launched what amounts to a smear campaign to discredit the authenticity of the Bat and certain sports memorabilia appraised." {paragraph 5) [So H&B can release press release after press release touting the qualities of their bat and pimping their museum but when someone says "boo" in response as to their claims as to the authenticity of the bat, he is acting improperly. Seems fair...not].

"Plancich, despite H&B's requests to cease and desist, including an acknowledged letter from Hillerich & Bradsby's local law firm; has continyed to discredit the bat and threatens to "see that this historically significant piece of lumber never sees the light of day, as far as the public is concerned." He is intentionally seeking to disrupt the relationship between H&B, the authenticator, and the public who will see the displayed Bat." (paragraph 8) [Who is this mysterious authenticator, the Lone Authenticator? Why doesn't H & B name him/her? "Relationship" is a really interesting word, too; wonder why H & B chose to use it? I would like to know more about this "relationship" that H & B has with the Lone Authenticator--wouldn't you? How cozy is it? How long have they been seeing each other? Does it include favoritism and kickbacks? How much of the material in H & B's museum has been blessed by the "authenticator" in question and what did he/she get in return? And just how does a communication directed to H & B ever reach the "public" unless they release it to the public? And who are the public? Am I part of the public in question? Are you?]

"Plancich has advised H&B on June 14, 2004 that he was speaking with an FBI agent regarding what Plancich's communication characterizes as "corrupt practices, fraudulent activities and manufacture of fake memorabilia in what Plancich refers to as FBI oeprations Operation Bullpen and Operation Foul Ball." (paragraph 11) [This one goes right over the top. These a-holes are suing Robert for making a report, an absolutely privileged act]

The complaint seeks unspecified damages and an injunction "preventing defendant ... from harassing, discrediting, communicating with and causing irreparable harm to the reputation of Hillderich & Bradsby Co.'s property, threatening its museum guests, and harassing its employees." [Now, I don't know how things operate in Kentucky, but here in California we believe in free speech and right to petition the government for redress of grievances. If I read this correctly, H & B wants to stop Plancich from speaking to anyone about anything relating to H & B; I can't really tell of course because WHO they want to stop Plancich from "communicating with" isn't really listed. I suppose since they brought it up, it would include the FBI, the Lone Authenticator, the press and anyone else in the world.]

One of the most interesting things about patent lawsuits is that one means of defending an infringement claim is to invalidate the patent. For that reason, many potential patent plaintiffs do not bring cases--they do not want their patents put on trial. H & B is assuming an awful lot of risk here--I would not only go after the authenticity of the bat, I would go after everything the Lone Authenticator has ever done as part of that "relationship" with H & B, since everything that is part of that "relationship" has to be weighed and analyzed to determine whether it was damaged by the defendant's actions. I'm guessing that maybe H & B and the Lone Authenticator might not like having their "relationship" aired in court, especially if it results in the whole history of the bat and the Lone Authenticator's "relationship" with H & B being brought out of the shadows and into a sworn record.

In my humble opinion, this suit is unconscionable and shameful and H & B should be taken to school over it. I only hope Robert has the resources and the starch to send these shameless curs back to Kentucky with their tails tucked between their legs and hefty bite out of their wallets in the form of attorneys' fees paid to him when the case is dismissed.