Vote!!!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Isn't there a section of the Bible that preaches tolerance?

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Posted By: jdrum

Don't dare bring your Conestoga south. I've heard reports of swarms of angry Bible thumpers.

Edit: To be clear, this is T-I-C (Tongue in Cheek) statement. You know, it's part of the Foot-In-Mouth family.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I would be remiss if I didn't add that Dan seems to have the pulse of this long thread down pat. He already knows where it's heading.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Absolutely not. I didn't say that.

In my opinion, people who exhibit that level of intolerance toward others do start to inch closer to that level.


(If Richard is truly living his life according to the Bible, shouldn't he be required to put homosexuals to death?)


It's a guidebook, Tom, not a lawbook.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You know my neighborhood, Brooklyn Heights, is the world headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses. That's a fact!

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Posted By: David Atkatz

<<It's a guidebook, Tom, not a lawbook.>>

Amen, brother.

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Posted By: leon

My wife, the good Church of Christ member, said a Jehovah's Witnesses came to our door yesterday. She ran out the back.... I am ok with anyone's religion I just don't want it pushed on me....

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Posted By: Jim VB

<<I am ok with anyone's religion I just don't want it pushed on me....>>

I agree 100%. I also don't want it pushed on our government.

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Posted By: leon

We are in agreement.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

less bigotry and more cowbell

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- I can spot them a block away. They always travel in twos or threes, and always carry those pamphlets. And when you walk past them they try to get you to get with the program. Hey, it doesn't bother me, but I've always declined.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Crap! I've got BOTH Leon and David A. in agreement with me! Maybe I should rethink this?


By the way, anyone with a freee 16 minutes to kill should go to:

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/top100speechesall.html

and listen to MLK's speech from 45 years ago. It's like he was talking about yesterday. Very moving and supportive of our great country.

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Posted By: Dave F

David A-

-Aside from my spelling and grammatical errors it shows why I'm uneducated-.

Terrific comeback. I'm a civil engineer by profession...I deal with mathmatics, not thesis statements. I believe Dorskind already came down on you once and I'd agree, I don't need some goofball literture professor worrying about my spelling...sounds a little anal retentive especially when you know what the words were supposed to be.

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Posted By: Dave F

And Ted-



No, i'm not "rich". I don't make anywhere close to 250k. Point being, I'm not asking for handouts from the government. I don't need them to pay for my mortgage or my gas..ha. It starts when your a freaking kid. Raise the kids the right way to take some responsibility on themselves and to not have this "where is mine?" mentality.

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Posted By: JimB

Richard Dwyer wrote:
"That may be true, but I don't care about immoral individuals."

What a loving, Christian comment. Your emulation of Jesus' ideals and values is truly inspiring. He must have said something along those lines a hundred times in the Bible.
Seriously, there are many that would consider your comments what is immoral here.



"I believe in the Bible, and it clearly states that Gay Marriage is wrong."

Good for you. The problem is that the Bible is not the standard for law in this country. Nobody here is compelled to believe in the Bible. We have freedom of religion in the United States. If your religious beliefs make you opposed to gay marriage, don't support it in your church. Go to a church that does not marry gays. What makes your private religious beliefs those that the whole country should adopt? Many good Americans consider them hateful and despicable.

A little friendly P.R. advice for the extreme Christian right : Why not focus on Jesus' message of loving your neighbor rather than spreading a doctrine of hate that only drives people away. I bet your recruiting would be a lot more successful and your message would be closer to Jesus'.

JimB

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Posted By: Richard Simon

One of the quotes from higher up in this thread -
"I hope Texas separates itself from the US".

YAY!!!

Where do I sign up for this one,,, Alaska has a secessionist party (ask Mr Palin), now let us get one for Texas also.

=

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Unknown author

--

We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.

No retreat baby, no surrender.

The Boss

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Posted By: JimB

But so much great American music comes from Texas!
JimB

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Posted By: David Atkatz

<<goofball literture professor>>



Actually, Dave, I'm a goofball physics professor. Theoretical physics, in fact.



So I would not hesitate to put both my mathematical skills and my knowledge of various branches of mathematics up against yours.



But I still know how to read and write.



And I can spell "literature."

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

"throughout history.......the rublican (sic)...... vote has always relied on the south"



Huh?!?!



Democrats owned the "Solid South" for the better part of a hundred years following the Civil War. Republican (the "party of Lincoln" - who "freed the slaves" - remember?) support for black rights during Reconstruction alienated the segregated South and led to Democratic domination for the last quarter of the 19th century and more than the first half of the 20th century.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

And, Dave, it wasn't just your spelling and grammar I was commenting upon. There is also your lack of knowledge about things that happened before you were born.

Here's your sage pronouncement (complete with your numerous technical errors):

"as throughout history, the electoral votes have always went the way of the Democrats in the north and liberal California west and the Rublican convservative vote has always relied on the south"

Now, here's a bit of actual historical fact, regarding "the Solid South":


"Solid South refers to the electoral support of the Southern United States for Democratic Party candidates for nearly a century from 1877, the end of the Reconstruction, to 1964."

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

A quick Google search yields..............

http://texassecession.com/

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Posted By: Dave F

REPUBLICAN.

Good lord at all the spelling guys. I was talking about recent history Bob, not the 1860's or 1910's.

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Posted By: Dave F

David-

Again, I was talking about recent history. Since the Jimmy Carter debacle no other Democrat has received the electoral votes from the majority south. I'm trying to understand how going back a hundred years has anything to do with recent voting trends when women or blacks weren't even allowed to vote.

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Posted By: Daryle

What are we voting on?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

We're voting for more Cowbell

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Posted By: J Levine

Views from another teacher...

I live in California and have taught here for 12 years.

I am disgusted that bigotry and intolerance survive today. My district is very conservative and everyday I had to drive through a neighborhood plastered with Yes on 8 placards and protests. This is just plain wrong.

First...the 3rd grade curriculum talked about teaches family life and how to be a productive family member. It neither supports gay marriage or ignores it. In fact, the way it was written was to support any family unit including divorced, remarried, deaths of parents, extended families, etc. Yes, gay marriage can be included but it is not taught in any form. And just for the record, the state curriculum would not change because of Prop. 8. The fact remains that gay people can still live together as a family and adopt children as their own in California. If you want to read the actual California state Health Framework it is here.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/cr/cf/documents/healthfw.pdf

To the people who say gay marriage is wrong as stated in the bible do not read the bible very closely. The passage that is most talked about in Leviticus was written during a time when the Jewish nation was just starting to recover after decades of strife. The laws in Leviticus were there to encourage habits that would make the Israelite nation strong...eating safe meats (birds--yes the eagle according to the bible is an abomination, certain shellfish, certain stock animals), living clean (women were not to touch anything while on their period and if they did it was to be burned), and propogating the nation (this is the real reason behind the abolishment of gay lifestyle...it was a waste of semen that was the problem...nothing is said about lesbianism btw.)...people who use the bible to justify beliefs are fine by me but you must understand that the bible, while it has its uses, is an imperfect creation from a time long ago.

Another example. I have heard many people say they believe that the rapture and end of days are coming. This concept was not around until about 400 years ago. The words rapture and end of days do not exist in biblical teachings until fairly recently.

I have also seen signs in the front yards of the school neighborhood stating Obama is a socialist. Fine by me. So was Jesus. The bible quotes Jesus telling people to take what little you have and make sure that everyone is taken care of equally. Sounds like socialism to me. (Acts: 4 32-35)

I worry about people who pick and choose from the bible as some have stated here this week. Do not forget that divorce is forbidden in the bible and yet many of the pro-8 people I see at school are divorced. That is adultery in the bible and a sin.

Do not push your religion on me and I will not push back. I feel that God would love everyone whether sinner or saint.

What worries me most about Prop. 8 is that it is a very slippery slope. If you make the argument that gay marriage is a moral issue then you can make the argument that Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Jews, etc. cannot marry as it is a sin and the bible forbids a marriage that does not glorify (a Christian) god. A simple phrase in the state constitution could take those away too...what about the right to procreate? Again...the biblical argument can be made that Mormons, etc. should not be allowed to have children because they are not following the true glory of the Christian God. Sound ridiculous or scary?

I did not mean to rant but I am very sad everytime I hear someone trying to force their view of the world on someone else. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Joshua

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Posted By: LenK

well, that may have been the only lesbian wedding Elaine Benes will be able to attend.....her best-man days may be over

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Posted By: Bob

Thank God for Virginia and Florida. The McCain red state list was starting to look like a map of the Confederate States of America. Not all white Southerners are Bubbas and right wingers.
As I drove to the poll yesterday I saw a group of young girls with signs that said "Obama kills babies" and "Obama is a terrorist." A little closer to the polls were the signs that the older people held which said McCain and Palin were "true" Americans and belittled Obama and Biden. After I voted I spotted an elderly Black man on one street corner with a sign that simply said "The whole world is watching" and a young Hispanic youth with a sign which said "Yes We Can."
I was proud to cast my vote and after watching the very gracious concession speech of John McCain (too bad so many of his supporters didn't have this man's grace and class) and the inspiring speech of Obama, I thought two things: I thank God we have a President who might be able to help heal wounds and make us a united states instead of a fractured and fragmented one filled with fear and hatred and that we should all say a prayer for Obama and his family that the whack jobs and nut cases will be too busy with their own sad lives to bother to even think of harming our President and his family.
Seeing the tears in the eyes of African Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, Asians and so many Whites during the victory speech gave me a lump in my throat and I came away thinking maybe, just maybe, things will get better and we will all be a little kinder, more understanding and a better people...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Amen Bob. I know many people who are elated today. This is the best news we've gotten in a long time.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Thanks, Joshua.

(And you, too, Bob.)

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Posted By: Jim VB

Josh,

One minor nit-pick...

Both Mormons and Catholics are Christians, whether the Christians want us or not.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

But we Jews aren't!

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

OK, Dave, recent history it is. However, your original reference was to "throughout history" which, you'd have to agree, is different from "recent history".

Also, I believe it was Lyndon Johnson and his slew of civil rights legislation that turned the south, not Carter. I believe, for example, that Nixon swept the south in '72, though because of Watergate and the fact that Carter was himself a southerner, he did win the south in '76.

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Posted By: jdrum

If I'm white and live in the South and vote for McCain, then I must be a Bubba or a right-winger, or both. Is that Inductive or Deductive Reasoning?

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Posted By: Anthony S.

TBob,



And it's looking like North Carolina, too. By about 12,000 votes.

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Posted By: peter ullman

Bob, Well stated...I also got teary eyed during obama's speech...it was truly a defining moment for our future as Americans.

pete ullman

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Posted By: sagard

This election gives the Republicans a great opportunity. They can preach personal responsibility and really start to mean it. They can return to the fiscal conservative roots and reclaim house and senate seats in two years. After that they can run a fiscal conservative and socially moderate candidate and they will retake the White House.

Lower taxes and small government is the argument that will win in this country. Unfortunately the five Republican admins since 1980 have not practiced this ideal. All have run exploding deficits that will someday be paid for by my kids and grandkids via cash or quality of life.

McCain's biggest problem was he didn't know when he was right on an issue.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

It sure isn't tolerant...................

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

It's funny how in this country it isn't cool to attack or belittle someone for anything but their Religion. Those that say things (like above) about Christians because they do not believe that particular religion, shame on you! There are many good Christians out there and saying things (as stated above) is highly offensive to them. Contrary to some opinions Christians are NOT gun toting, uneducated, toothless Southerners. I find it interesting that some religions are fair-game when it comes to attacks and others aren't. Try saying bad things about the Jewish faith (which also believes in the Bible, last I checked), and see how far you get.

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Posted By: samuel

that was the best post I've seen so far on this message board. thank you

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Posted By: jdrum

The issue is that a lot of people (non-Christians) see Christianity as a subtitute for intellect. And for that matter a lot of Christians give them reason to. See: Bill Maher.

Edited for southern spellin' of substitute!

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

right Jeff or someone will bust your a$$................

instead of weighing the merit of your argument..........

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Posted By: barrysloate

I won't Tom. I'm a reformed man.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

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Posted By: jdrum

You can corect me anytime! I need it!

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Barry..........I know you're tolerant............

I love the people who preach tolerance.......as long as everyone is tolerant of THEIR views, they are tolerant........in concept, it is a good thing though. Just humorous...........

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Posted By: barrysloate

"Correct"

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Posted By: jdrum

thanks for noticing. Anybody around here collect cards?

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Posted By: peter ullman

I do I do!

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

Jeff, I understand you point, and agree to an extent. There are definitely people in any group that tend to give them a bad name, especially in the name of religion. I am usually the last to get involved with these types of threads but I just felt like the thread was getting a little extreme on the Christianity bashing for a minute there. To each their own, regardless of how wierd one might find it.
-Rhett