Nat Turner bought PSA

[chriskim]

I always like to hear successful stories of young kid starts a company and sold at billions! But realize Mr. Turner is a PSA10s collector and that doesn't make this PSA purchase sound right to me.

Any thought?

[D. Bergin]

LOL. Young kid makes good. Buys big company with his hard-earned boot strappin' dollars. Instantly sets to gouging customers with huge price hikes.

Guess there wasn't an opening in the Texas Energy Market for him, and this was the next best thing.

Sorry, feelin' a little salty today.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Guess there wasn't an opening in the Texas Energy Market for him, and this was the next best thing.

Or big pharma. Martin Shkreli would be proud.

[FrozenInferno]

The Nat Turner group just finalized the sale what, a week ago? They didn't run in the door and change the pricing that quickly. PSA had already raised prices a couple of times over the past year and they were perfectly capable of setting the price hikes in motion long before the sale went through. I think it's too quick to point fingers at the new ownership.

Now if a few months go by and prices double again then sure, I'll grab my pitchfork.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by FrozenInferno

The Nat Turner group just finalized the sale what, a week ago? They didn't run in the door and change the pricing that quickly. PSA had already raised prices a couple of times over the past year and they were perfectly capable of setting the price hikes in motion long before the sale went through. I think it's too quick to point fingers at the new ownership.

Now if a few months go by and prices double again then sure, I'll grab my pitchfork.

Yes, I am sure the new owners didn't know and/or analyze the fact they were raising prices again in the company they just bought and own.

.

[Exhibitman]

PSA is a de facto monopoly and it is behaving precisely as a monopoly would be expected to behave: extract the most money from the captive consumers as it can while adding nothing to the cost, and service be damned. That is why we discourage monopolies.

PSA's new management knew precisely what it purchased--a monopoly--and understood precisely what it was going to do to goose revenues, and it wasn't chopping through the backlog. That's why the price increases dropped with no warning, why longtime preferred customers are being left out in the cold, etc. If the backlog holds up, expect further price increases.

[slightlyrounded]

Saw this on my twitter feed and thought it was pretty timely:



Re OP's post: I personally think it makes sense that someone who already has invested heavily in the hobby would see the value in this acquisition. But it does raise an interesting point about how insider power could be misused and how a subsequent windfall could result.

Assuming they haven't already done so (don't see it here), PSA should clarify their policy on how non arms length submissions are queued, graded and reviewed.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

Saw this on my twitter feed and thought it was pretty timely:



Re OP's post: I personally think it makes sense that someone who already has invested heavily in the hobby would see the value in this acquisition. But it does raise an interesting point about how insider power could be misused and how a subsequent windfall could result.

Assuming they haven't already done so (don't see it here), PSA should clarify their policy on how non arms length submissions are queued, graded and reviewed.

And just what is being insinuated here? NEVER! That would NEVER happen!

Vomit, Ralph or what ever sound we make when we throw up. Here we go... anybody wat to start a pool on how long it takes before something like that happens? You'd hope if someone tried something shady like that they'd be smart enough to use a third party (until someone figures it out and then OUTS the scam). Crap - I must be loosing my trust in others to "do the right thing". I don't know why...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by FrozenInferno

The Nat Turner group just finalized the sale what, a week ago? They didn't run in the door and change the pricing that quickly. PSA had already raised prices a couple of times over the past year and they were perfectly capable of setting the price hikes in motion long before the sale went through. I think it's too quick to point fingers at the new ownership.

Now if a few months go by and prices double again then sure, I'll grab my pitchfork.

wut??

[slightlyrounded]

To be clear, not insinuating anything. I actually think the value of running an upstanding company of this size dwarfs the value that would be gained by unscrupulous grading.

[hcv123]

He was pissed off about how long his submissions were taking?!

[chriskim]

When rich people are sick and tired of waiting in line (PSA submission).... the first thing comes to their minds are "I am just going to buy this company.... damn it!".

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by hcv123

He was passed off about how long his submissions were taking?!

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

PSA is a de facto monopoly and it is behaving precisely as a monopoly would be expected to behave: extract the most money from the captive consumers as it can while adding nothing to the cost, and service be damned. That is why we discourage monopolies.

PSA's new management knew precisely what it purchased--a monopoly--and understood precisely what it was going to do to goose revenues, and it wasn't chopping through the backlog. That's why the price increases dropped with no warning, why longtime preferred customers are being left out in the cold, etc. If the backlog holds up, expect further price increases.

I understand the sentiment, but it's hardly a monopoly.
PSA trades on it's customer loyalty - not because they've swallowed up or priced out competition or had government cronies protect their market position. Their brand has achieved such great market share that it drives potential and existing buyers to continue that relationship in the belief there is monetary value in doing so.
And corresponding loss of value in exiting that relationship.
Their customers buy and trade with eachother and the beast simply feeds the beast. Others see what's happening and don't want to miss out on 30% premium that slab sticker banks.

It's not PSA's fault that it's minion following is willing to simply look past their sketchy grading history, including to this day where some of their 8's look better than their 10's.

Kind of like people buying Jeeps the last 40 years regardless of their poor quality control, poor reliability, poor interior design, below average driving characteristics, etc. Chrysler sold a cleverly marketed brand and people are extraordinarily loyal to that brand.
Having said that, I bought a 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee and absolutely adore it.....then again current models look and feel nothing like those of previous eras.
If the vehicle breaks down I bought a Heep, knowingly, willingly, and enthusiastically. I love how it looks, how it makes me feel driving down the road, the utility it has in spades.

See, we can all make questionable decisions.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

I understand the sentiment, but it's hardly a monopoly.
PSA trades on it's customer loyalty - not because they've swallowed up or priced out competition or had government cronies protect their market position. Their brand has achieved such great market share that it drives potential and existing buyers to continue that relationship in the belief there is monetary value in doing so.
And corresponding loss of value in exiting that relationship.
Their customers buy and trade with eachother and the beast simply feeds the beast. Others see what's happening and don't want to miss out on 30% premium that slab sticker banks.

It's not PSA's fault that it's minion following is willing to simply look past their sketchy grading history, including to this day where some of their 8's look better than their 10's.

Kind of like people buying Jeeps the last 40 years regardless of their poor quality control, poor reliability, poor interior design, below average driving characteristics, etc. Chrysler sold a cleverly marketed brand and people are extraordinarily loyal to that brand.
Having said that, I bought a 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee and absolutely adore it.....then again current models look and feel nothing like those of previous eras.
If the vehicle breaks down I bought a Heep, knowingly, willingly, and enthusiastically. I love how it looks, how it makes me feel driving down the road, the utility it has in spades.

See, we can all make questionable decisions.

No one else has the registry, so it is a de facto monopoly. Where else are the registry queens going to go?

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No one else has the registry, so it is a de facto monopoly. Where else are the registry queens going to go?

That's an excellent point.

It would be really interesting knowing how many collectors use the registry in an official/self adulating way and share with others or preen knowing others are on-looking, and how many collectors simply like being able to check on populations to help determine scarcity and value.

Either way, being able to do either certainly enables collectors who use PSA services to feel more enabled.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Either way, being able to do either certainly enables collectors who use PSA services to feel more enabled.

Austin Powers: Allow myself to introduce... myself.

[68Hawk]

'I'm not saying it's hot, but I'm pretty sure the thermometer reads Satan's balls'.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No one else has the registry, so it is a de facto monopoly. Where else are the registry queens going to go?

Nobody has to be a "registry queen." It isn't like needing food, health care, electricity, internet connectivity, and so on.

That's like saying you need Topps baseball cards and therefore Topps has a monopoly over you.

[toledo_mudhen]

In light of this - I feel much better now knowing that I will never feel the irresistible urge to submit anything to PSA for grading going forward

(man that's a Load Off)

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Nobody has to be a "registry queen." It isn't like needing food, health care, electricity, internet connectivity, and so on.

That's like saying you need Topps baseball cards and therefore Topps has a monopoly over you.

That's not a credible counter-argument. No one "needs" more than food, clothing, shelter and medical care, but necessities of life are not the only place where monopolistic economic behavior takes place or causes damage.

No one "has to" be a PSA customer at all. i quit a few years ago and haven't missed it a bit.

[Econteachert205]

Psa operates in a market that is an oligopoly. They offer a similar set of service to competitors with some differentiation such as the registry. PSA is displaying price leadership as they are the alpha of the group. With an oligopoly what needs to be closely examined is evidence of collusion between the entities which is normally discussed in context of price but could also be relevant to the structure of fees, wait times and services rendered.

[scottglevy]

But at some point extreme price increases drive the very customers you’re trying to attract - registry set builders away. And this begins to erode price advantage - not immediately, but over time.

Dad and I like collecting 52T and 33G signed cards. We started to put together a 52T registry set. When we began I think it was $20 to get the “red label” - autograph authenticated, card graded. Recently that became $50 ... and very recently $100. We are right in the mix for a #1 registry spot and have many raw autographed cards that would likely put us there. At $20 a pop all these cards are getting submitted. At $50 per mayyybe I swallow hard and send them in but a $100 a shot - no freakin’ way. I now don’t care nearly as much if a card that we are missing is PSA or any other reputable firm, even including raw with some certification. Furthermore, we are now NOT going to do a 33G registry set even though we have more than half the set signed. If enough people begin to have the same thought process and take similar actions then the premium will shrink.

[FrankWakefield]

Cohen Capital Ventures, D1 Capital Partners, and Nat Turner teamed up to make an offer to Collector's Universe, Inc (PSA) to buy all stock and take the company private. And the board of directors voted to accept the deal.

I think this was about the money. The board could cash out their stock options and holdings, the shareholders would be able to sell their shares for more than they'd been valued before... and I think the buyers were doing this for the money. It's their work. They might have bought a company having shopping malls, or a golf cart manufacturer, or a greeting card company. It's about the money. And those 'buyers' are buying because they think that Collector's Universe will make 'more money' in the future.

I don't think Mr. Turner is gonna get all of his submissions graded as 10's.

It's not about getting cards graded. It is about two things: first, 'the money', and then secondly, 'more money.'

And how they make money is by having rabid collectors thinking all of their collectables need grading. Those collectors think it's about two things; first, getting a collectable graded; and secondly, getting it regraded. Think about the change to half grades, and then the change in label styles... that increased regrading.

It's about the money.

[Jewish-collector]

Cyndi Lauper was right, but at the wrong time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMVuRGw_a5A

[Republicaninmass]

Thankfully I have 91 cards in for dual auto grading, I'll do beckett from now on. I'm close, I mean REALLY close, just 002% from the #1 signed 52 set, but at $100 a card it is financial suicide. Many of the easier names struggle to get back the grading fee plus the cost of the raw card. At some point any prestige is just thrown out the window!

Also, I have a hard time believing they will upcharge me $100 per card as was mentioned somewhere.


As soon as the backlog is completed, prices will come back down.


It's like a popular nightclub, keep raising the cover until nobody comes, then roll it back to get a happy medium. Pulling psa 10s from packs and getting a 1000% return could only last so long. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Make it all about the money, and money it will cost. Now having the comfort of a grade and protection of a slab for something worthwhile at $100 really isnt so terrible.

[bigtrain]

I have purchased PSA graded cards but I have never
submitted a card for grading. That doesn’t mean I don’t recognize
the value of the company. I am a card collector and
a stock investor. Very happy to have made a 25% return since
purchasing their stock a few months ago. Now I have to decide whether
to buy a PSA 10 Whitey Ford I’ve had my eye on or a few hundred shares of Ford Motor Company.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

I have purchased PSA graded cards but I have never
submitted a card for grading. That doesn’t mean I don’t recognize
the value of the company. I am a card collector and
a stock investor. Very happy to have made a 25% return since
purchasing their stock a few months ago. Now I have to decide whether
to buy a PSA 10 Whitey Ford I’ve had my eye on or a few hundred shares of Ford Motor Company.

Buy the card.