What should we call the cards formerly known as T206 Polar Bear

[RCMcKenzie]

.

[brianp-beme]

Is this a trick question? If not, I suggest "Scrap Happy Tobacky" cards.

Brian

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Is this a trick question? If not, I suggest "Scrap Happy Tobacky" cards.

Brian

I was trying to make a poll, and I accidentally posted this before I had a poll set up, and didn't want to post twice. I did not have your answer as one of the choices, so this is better anyway with write-in answers.

[Casey2296]

Is this like a Pluto is not a planet thing or a gang of 5 Polar Bear environmental thing?

[Exhibitman]

How about

[G1911]

Won't somebody give some attention to the poor T205's that also have to be re-designated now?

[CobbSpikedMe]

I'm out of the loop here. Why are they "formerly known as T206 Polar Bears"? Are they not T206 any longer? Please help me out here.

Thanks.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I'm out of the loop here. Why are they "formerly known as T206 Polar Bears"? Are they not T206 any longer? Please help me out here.

Thanks.

+1

[icurnmedic]

Count me as not understanding the question/situation....

[ullmandds]

t213-1?

[MuncieNolePAZ]

I assume this has to do with the 213-1 thread.

[tedzan]

Rob

You and I appear to agree on most things regarding White-bordered Tobacco cards, but this topic here sounds like revisionist "mumbo-jumbo".
I just do not understand where you are coming from. The T206 Monster is complicated enough, however I believe most of us have pretty good
understanding of it.

At least 250 subjects are confirmed with the POLAR BEAR back. They include T206's printed in the 350-only, 350/460 and 460-only Series.
The checklist is listed below with respect to each series. The timeline of the POLAR BEAR print runs is circa early Summer to late Winter 1910.
By early Spring 1911, T206 production ended. Proof of this is provided by American Lithographic ledgers. Then in 1911, the Gold-bordered era
print runs started....T80's, T205's, etc.

POLAR BEAR checklist

350-only Series..................139 subjects

Abbott
Adkins
Anderson
Arellanes
Armbruster
Atz
Barbeau
Barger
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beck
Beckley
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell

Burke
Bush
Carr
Carrigan
Casey
Chappelle
Clancy
Clark
Clymer
Collins (Milwaukee)
Congalton
Cravath
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Joe Doyle (hands over head)
Dygert
Easterly

Egan
Engle
Evans
Ferguson
Fiene (portrait)
Flanagan
Freeman
Fromme
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Grimshaw
Groom
Hallman
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)

Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
Kruger
LaPorte
Lattimore
Lavender
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox

Maloney
Mattern
McGann
McGinnity
McGlynn
McLean
Merritt
Milan
Milligan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moriarty
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Nattress
Nichols (bat)
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill

Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelps
Phillippe
Pickering
Purtell
Puttman
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Raymond
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly
Schreck
Scott
Shannon

Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Chicago, white cap)
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Strang
Jessie Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thielman
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
White (Buffalo)
Willett
Wright
Irv Young


350/460 series...................57 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)

Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)


460-only Series..................46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist}

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)

and,

Demmitt (St Louis American)
O'Hara (St Louis Nat'L)


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I'm out of the loop here. Why are they "formerly known as T206 Polar Bears"? Are they not T206 any longer? Please help me out here.

Thanks.

No, they are still t206s.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by MuncieNolePAZ

I assume this has to do with the 213-1 thread.

Thanks, hadn't been following that thread lately and missed this. I've gotten all caught up now.

I say T206-2.



.

[edjs]

So, I was thinking maybe a little comic relief here.

How do you catch a Polar Bear?

Cut a hole in the ice, and surround it with frozen peas. When the Polar Bear comes up to take a pea, kick him in the ice-hole.

Thank folks, I’ll be here all week.

[Pat R]

Pretty sure Rob's thread is about some things I posted. To be clear Polar Bears
are t206's because that's what Burdick Classified them as and he's the one
that came up with the system.

What I was saying is as far as I know there is no proof they were printed with
the rest of the T206's and there is some pretty good evidence that they might
not have been printed at the same facility and/or time as the rest of the t206's.

[RCMcKenzie]

Sorry Ted and Pat, I think it's an interesting debate. I did not mean for my thread to be flippant. I meant it to be humorous. I thought everyone was following along in that other thread, and I see now that they were not. Similar to T215 Pirate and Red Cross, Adam's reply or Pete's were some of the types of answers I was looking for if Polar Bear were reclassified.

[conor912]

When I saw the title I thought that woke culture had final caught up with polar bears. Carry on.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Sorry Ted and Pat, I think it's an interesting debate. I did not mean for my thread to be flippant. I meant it to be humorous. I thought everyone was following along in that other thread, and I see now that they were not. Similar to T215 Pirate and Red Cross, Adam's reply or Pete's were some of the types of answers I was looking for if Polar Bear were reclassified.

No problem with me Rob I wasn't offended at all by your thread.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Rob

You and I appear to agree on most things regarding White-bordered Tobacco cards, but this topic here sounds like revisionist "mumbo-jumbo".
I just do not understand where you are coming from. The T206 Monster is complicated enough, however I believe most of us have pretty good
understanding of it.

At least 250 subjects are confirmed with the POLAR BEAR back. They include T206's printed in the 350-only, 350/460 and 460-only Series.
The checklist is listed below with respect to each series. The timeline of the POLAR BEAR print runs is circa early Summer to late Winter 1910.
By early Spring 1911, T206 production ended. Proof of this is provided by American Lithographic ledgers. Then in 1911, the Gold-bordered era
print runs started....T80's, T205's, etc.

POLAR BEAR checklist

350-only Series..................139 subjects

Abbott
Adkins
Anderson
Arellanes
Armbruster
Atz
Barbeau
Barger
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beck
Beckley
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell

Burke
Bush
Carr
Carrigan
Casey
Chappelle
Clancy
Clark
Clymer
Collins (Milwaukee)
Congalton
Cravath
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Joe Doyle (hands over head)
Dygert
Easterly

Egan
Engle
Evans
Ferguson
Fiene (portrait)
Flanagan
Freeman
Fromme
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Grimshaw
Groom
Hallman
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)

Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
Kruger
LaPorte
Lattimore
Lavender
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox

Maloney
Mattern
McGann
McGinnity
McGlynn
McLean
Merritt
Milan
Milligan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moriarty
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Nattress
Nichols (bat)
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill

Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelps
Phillippe
Pickering
Purtell
Puttman
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Raymond
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly
Schreck
Scott
Shannon

Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Chicago, white cap)
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Strang
Jessie Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thielman
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
White (Buffalo)
Willett
Wright
Irv Young


350/460 series...................57 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)

Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)


460-only Series..................46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist}

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)

and,

Demmitt (St Louis American)
O'Hara (St Louis Nat'L)


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Unless there is another Uzit letter page that is not what it states in the Uzit ledger page it states that they started packing and distributing baseball pictures on March 18th 1911.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Unless there is another Uzit letter page that is not what it states in the Uzit ledger page it states that they started packing and distributing baseball pictures on March 18th 1911.

Spring didn't begin until March 21. How are those two statements contradictory?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by rats60

Spring didn't begin until March 21. How are those two statements contradictory?

The ledger page states when they started packing and shipping. It doesn't
say when they stopped producing them or packing and shipping them.

I agree that the printing of the t206's most likely ended in the spring of 1911
but that's not what the ledger page states.

A few people are confusing packing and shipping instructions from American Tobacco with American Lithographs printing and supplying.

[judsonhamlin]

I’ve always been one for lumping the T206s with T213-1 and T215-1 but I understand the deference to Burdick’s system. The one thing that is curious to me is why he created subsets for the E92 groups and acknowledged the sequential nature of the Coupon, Red Cross and Obak sets but didn’t break down T206 into -1, -2, -3, etc based on the different series. That’s always seemed to be internally inconsistent. An interesting ‘what if’ is how he would’ve reacted to T206 if, say, the captions on the 460 series cards were printed in blue ink. Would they have still been T206’s?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by edjs

So, I was thinking maybe a little comic relief here.

How do you catch a Polar Bear?

Cut a hole in the ice, and surround it with frozen peas. When the Polar Bear comes up to take a pea, kick him in the ice-hole.

Thank folks, I’ll be here all week.

Can I buy back my introduction to you?

[FrankWakefield]

Polar Bears printed somewhere else.... ????

I guess someone in another print shop etched the plates/stones and just happened to have obverses identical to Piedmonts, Sovereigns, and such as in T206's....

I think they fit in fine as T206's.

About 28 years ago Mr. Lipset had listed in one of his auctions or sales (if my memory is working accurately) a lot of Polar Bear back cards. I think the quantity was in the low 90's. Over the years since, I kinda wished I had bought that lot. Had I done so, I may well have managed to have a full set of whatever they are.

Polar Bears are just fine among those cigarettes. If you wanna get rid of something, the Ty Cobb backed cards should be considered some separate private printing in the style of T206.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Polar Bears printed somewhere else.... ????

I guess someone in another print shop etched the plates/stones and just happened to have obverses identical to Piedmonts, Sovereigns, and such as in T206's....

I think they fit in fine as T206's.

About 28 years ago Mr. Lipset had listed in one of his auctions or sales (if my memory is working accurately) a lot of Polar Bear back cards. I think the quantity was in the low 90's. Over the years since, I kinda wished I had bought that lot. Had I done so, I may well have managed to have a full set of whatever they are.

Polar Bears are just fine among those cigarettes. If you wanna get rid of something, the Ty Cobb backed cards should be considered some separate private printing in the style of T206.

How do you think they printed the Coupon type 3's Frank? They're the same
exact image as the T206's just the caption is different on them.

[FrankWakefield]

I think the white border T206s and ALL of the Coupon cards are printed by American Litho. And I think Polar Bears were, too.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I think the white border T206s and ALL of the Coupon cards are printed by American Litho. And I think Polar Bears were, too.

So do I but they had more than one facility.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Can I buy back my introduction to you?

Just don’t forget to tip the waitresses, they work hard.

[FrankWakefield]

"So don't I"... ???

I don't comprehend what you're trying to say... Could you try again.

And "They" who? Who had more than one facility? Duke? American Litho? Polar Bear? Coupon Cigarettes??

Or are you just looking for some erudite debate?

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

"So don't I"... ???

I don't comprehend what you're trying to say... Could you try again.

And "They" who? Who had more than one facility? Duke? American Litho? Polar Bear? Coupon Cigarettes??

Or are you just looking for some erudite debate?

Sorry Frank I corrected it. I was referring to American Lithograph.

In 1892 they purchased G.H. Buck, Donaldson Brothers, The Giles Company,
Harris & sons, Heppenheimer Sons, Lindner Eddy & Clauss Schumacher & Ettlinger and Witsch & Schmidt.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by edjs

Just don’t forget to tip the waitresses, they work hard.

is this on? I know you'e out there...I can hear you breathing. OK, here's another joke you won't like.

I do standup regularly here in L.A.



When you kill there is no better rush but when you die it is agony. Spent one of the longest five minutes of my life last Friday night just bombing epically in my first post-COVID live show. Looks like I need to do some mikes when they start back up and shake off the ring rust.

[1880nonsports]

when you're dead you don't know it
it only bothers other people
it's the same when you're stupid...........

No reference to anyone reading this is being suggested by this post

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

is this on? I know you'e out there...I can hear you breathing. OK, here's another joke you won't like.

I do standup regularly here in L.A.



When you kill there is no better rush but when you die it is agony. Spent one of the longest five minutes of my life last Friday night just bombing epically in my first post-COVID live show. Looks like I need to do some mikes when they start back up and shake off the ring rust.

Just take a blue pill, you will be fine

As for this discussion. I don't think T213 Coupons were, or will ever be, T206s.

Polar Bears are T206s.

.

.

.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Leon

Polar Bears are T206s.

.

So now that this is settled - What's the next topic?