Matty photo question

[Bicem]

Is this the photo used to create the Premium (with some artistic liberties) or just a very similar one?

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Is this the photo used to create the Premium (with some artistic liberties) or just a very similar one?

I'm guessing the latter Jeff, as there are a number of differentiating characteristics between the two.

Here is the photo on the right, done by Bain, in a Memory Lane auction: https://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/...e?itemid=43498

From the same photo shoot: https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/c...umbnail-071515

In both examples, Henry Lee has dated it to the 1900's based on the paper/stamps/other features. The Memory Lane description dates it to spring training 1902/1903, though I am not sure what that is based on. The person who likely wrote the description (Joe T./VintageClout on net54) is very knowledgeable overall and about Matty. Probably worth a follow up communication with him.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Is this the photo used to create the Premium (with some artistic liberties) or just a very similar one?

Jeff,

The Matty Type 1 Bain image was taken in Bain’s famous photo shoot in early April 1902 (I actually own that type 1 photo). The periodical supplement is 1901 - 2 different images.

Joe T.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Jeff,

The Matty Type 1 Bain image was taken in Bain’s famous photo shoot in early April 1902 (I actually own that type 1 photo). The periodical supplement is 1901 - 2 different images.

Joe T.

Awesome, thanks Joe! How were you able to pinpoint the April 1902 date? Also, do you know where the Bain photo session took place?

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Awesome, thanks Joe! How were you able to pinpoint the April 1902 date? Also, do you know where the Bain photo session took place?

Jeff - there were 5 different photos of matty (that I know of) taken that day and one of the pitching images I previously owned has an April 2, 1902 date on the verso. I’m not 100% sure where these Spring training images were taken. It

[Jobu]

Baseball Almanac says their 1902 spring training was in Savannah:

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/tea...sites-nl.shtml

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Baseball Almanac says their 1902 spring training was in Savannah:

I am pretty sure that they trained at home in New York in 1902.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Jeff - there were 5 different photos of matty (that I know of) taken that day and one of the pitching images I previously owned has an April 2, 1902 date on the verso. I’m not 100% sure where these Spring training images were taken. It

Joe, which image from that day am I missing here?

Do you have an image of the back with the April 2, 1902 stamp?

Not sure why the images are all wonky. they are all the same size on my computer when I upload them.

[Bicem]

They definitely had Spring Training at the Polo Grounds in 1902. So is that the Polo Grounds in the Bain photo session?

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Joe, which image from that day am I missing here?

Do you have an image of the back with the April 2, 1902 stamp?

Not sure why the images are all wonky. they are all the same size on my computer when I upload them.

Here you go Kevin.....don’t have the back scan right now but I’ll find it. Someone wrote April 1, 1902 on the verso (not April 2nd). Sorry I let this one go!

[WillowGrove]

Definitely Polo Grounds for spring training - but I did find references from a 3/6 paper that Fogel (giants owner) was going to go to do Florida to look for a training place. Also a later reference that the Giants signed McIntyre and he was to meet the team in Waco on 3/17.

I only bring up these non-Polo Grounds options in case it helps identify or rule out a field.

All this said, are those out of town teams listed on the scorebard behind Matty in the OP? Doesn't seem like they would track out of town scores for spring training.


ETA: I found info that the player was incorrect about Waco. The Giants held spring training only at the Polo Grounds.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

All this said, are those out of town teams listed on the scorebard behind Matty in the OP? Doesn't seem like they would track out of town scores for spring training.

Good catch Peter, thought the same thing. Looks to me like...

New York
Philadelphia
Brooklyn
Boston
St. Louis
Pittsburgh
Chicago
Cincinnati

But I'm not 100%.

Joe, is that Matty photo with the Bucknell sweater with the date even from the same Bain session as the others?

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Good catch Peter, thought the same thing. Looks to me like...

New York
Philadelphia
Brooklyn
Boston
St. Louis
Pittsburgh
Chicago
Cincinnati

But I'm not 100%.

Joe, is that Matty photo with the Bucknell sweater with the date even from the same Bain session as the others?

Jeff - I always assumed it to be, but now that I’m taking a closer look at the background area, I’m not so sure. I do know it’s dated April 1, 1902 on the verso.

[Leon]

Great images
As for the size difference in photos in our system if you look at the size of the scan being uploaded the really small ones are less than 20kb, They need to be about 60kb-85lb to look normal sized. I often have to re-save an image to get the correct size before I try to upload it. Check the size of the scan before uploading, if too small, work with it to make it larger. before uploading

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Joe, which image from that day am I missing here?

Do you have an image of the back with the April 2, 1902 stamp?

Not sure why the images are all wonky. they are all the same size on my computer when I upload them.

[rholmes]

Apologies for re-animating a two-year-old thread, but I thought a few people might be interested in some possibly new info regarding the 1902 Bain-stamped Mathewson photos discussed above. I've been researching these photos on and off for a while just out of general photo/Bain/Matty curiosity, but when I acquired one of the images a couple of months ago I put a little more time into it, and I'm pretty sure I may have found the original publication source. Up til now the dating of this sequence of Matty photos has been pretty loose...anything from 1901 to 1904. Henry Yee/PSA has always used the "1900's" designation when certing these Type 1's.

So then finally, this...The NY Sunday Telegraph, May 11, 1902:



All five known photos in this sequence are here, plus two additional of Matty is street clothes. Being a whole-page feature, I would tend to think that these photos were shot specifically for this story, as opposed to using existing stock.

Even better, it appears that my photo is one of the exact prints used in the layout of this newspaper story. See the edit box around Mathewson. Various characteristics of the inked lines match up exactly:



Last thing, these photos were definitely taken at the Polo Grounds. The windowed shed and the scoreboard behind Mathewson were in the right field corner in 1902. See this photo taken at the Polo Grounds in 1901:

[Bicem]

Awesome! Great detective work Ray, mystery solved.

[FrankWakefield]

Well deserved revival of an old thread...

The Sunday Telegraph's section 3 devotes the first page to that Bucknell man who's pitching for Mr. McGraw's Giants...

They chased him down, got the info for the story, and took some photos. Well done, Sir.

It took nearly 6 score years for that to be tied together. A great aspect of this board.

[Baseball Rarities]

Ray, wow, that is a great find. I think that three of the images of Matty in uniform are known to exist, plus an additional batting pose. It would be great to see the other two (lower left and middle right) pop up.

Out of curiosity, how did you come across that image of The Sunday Telegraph?

[WillowGrove]

Great job and important information Ray.

[rholmes]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Ray, wow, that is a great find. I think that three of the images of Matty in uniform are known to exist. It would be great to see the other two (lower left and middle right) pop up.

Out of curiosity, how did you come across that image of The Sunday Telegraph?

Thanks guys.

Kevin, the Sunday Telegraph page just came from one of the free or subscription newspaper archives I use. Just endless keyword searching. This was a tough one but I knew these photos had to have been published somewhere.

By the way, you can click through any of the photos I posted above for larger scans.

[Dardevl]

As usual, the board comes through!

Amazing find Ray!

I have the middle-right photo, although a later 1920's printing from a dupe negative. The window that Matty is half-covering appears to have been darkened for newspaper production. Also, the paper caption (obviously) is mislabeled as 1904 AND attributed to Conlon.

And thank you for the "revival"! Well, worth it!

[jingram058]

It appears that all of the (what I would call) truly iconic images of Christy Mathewson came out of this photo shoot. This s81 silk premium is just one example.

[rholmes]

Close, but that (and Matty's E93 and whatever else), would have been based on this Norman Penfield (Pictorial News Co.) shot, c1903, Savannah, GA:

[jingram058]

You are quite right, sir, that is it exactly.