Selling calls on cards

[conor912]

Well this is a new one. This kind of thing could really screw up Sold Items data.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Option-to-B...8AAOSwcAFfNzom

[bigred1]

Interesiting

[iwantitiwinit]

I'd be awfully careful buying something like that, what's there to guarantee performance if the buyer choses to exercise the option. Once the option is purchased all further transactions or actions occur off of eBay. No bueno.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I'd be awfully careful buying something like that, what's there to guarantee performance if the buyer choses to exercise the option. Once the option is purchased all further transactions or actions occur off of eBay. No bueno.

I read it as it will be listed as a $425 BIN with a private link to the buyer of the option. I’m more scared that this becomes prolific. Instead of the ~$700 sale that it essentially would be, it will show as 2 sales, one for $266 and one for $425. I find it hard to believe that Ebay is cool with this, but then again i have been shocked before by what ebay is cool with. Wall street has officially infiltrated the hobby. God help us all.

[JohnP0621]

So let me get this straight . The high bidder won this card for $266.00
But this only allows him to buy it at $425.00.
No Thanks.

John P

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

So let me get this straight . The high bidder won this card for $266.00
But this only allows him to buy it at $425.00.
No Thanks.

John P

No according to the pictures the winner has the right to allow him to buy the card for $425 + the $266 bid. So $691.

It's convoluted nonsense.

[White Borders]

Sounds similar to a stock warrant. If the winner doesn't exercise his option to purchase at $425, then he/she is out $266.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

No according to the pictures the winner has the right to allow him to buy the card for $425 + the $266 bid. So $691.

It's convoluted nonsense.

Especially when the card can be readily had for $550. Something doesn’t add up here.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by conor912

Especially when the card can be readily had for $550. Something doesn’t add up here.

I really don't think some those bidders realized what they were bidding on......if they are even real bidders.

[MooseDog]

I know the SEC has been de-nutted for quite some time but I would think this type of thing violates some US Securities laws, not that anyone pays any attention any more...

[iwantitiwinit]

I would agree about the SEC, what transpired is essentially a financial transaction exchanged for a promise to perform, really a non-registered security transaction. Doubt it will fly.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by conor912

I read it as it will be listed as a $425 BIN with a private link to the buyer of the option. I’m more scared that this becomes prolific. Instead of the ~$700 sale that it essentially would be, it will show as 2 sales, one for $266 and one for $425. I find it hard to believe that Ebay is cool with this, but then again i have been shocked before by what ebay is cool with. Wall street has officially infiltrated the hobby. God help us all.

Ebay doesn't give a shit about anything but their money.

Looks like they will be getting paid either way to me.

If the "buyer" goes thru with the option, ebay gets paid on $266 + $425.

If the "buyer" doesn't go thru with it, then ebay gets paid on $266 for a card that didn't even sell.

PT Barnum is smiling.

Doug

[oldjudge]

The winner is just buying a call, exercisable by 9/14, to buy the card for $425. The strike could have been anywhere, where the higher the strike, the lower the value of the call. Option values are dependent on the strike (how it relates to current value, the time till expiration(more time—more valuable) and the price volatility of the underlying asset. The only issue I see is one of performance. If I ran Ebay I would say that these deals are fine, but the premium is held by eBay until either the option is exercised and the card is delivered or the option expires worthless. That way there is no risk of a seller taking the premium and disappearing.

[swarmee]

I think the buyer should buy the call, buy the card, then file an "Item not received" on the original purchase of the call. That would put an end to these shenanigans pretty quickly.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The winner is just buying a call, exercisable by 9/14, to buy the card for $425. The strike could have been anywhere, where the higher the strike, the lower the value of the call. Option values are dependent on the strike (how it relates to current value, the time till expiration(more time—more valuable) and the price volatility of the underlying asset. The only issue I see is one of performance. If I ran Ebay I would say that these deals are fine, but the premium is held by eBay until either the option is exercised and the card is delivered or the option expires worthless. That way there is no risk of a seller taking the premium and disappearing.

No way eBay is going to police that, I can't see them holding the funds in lieu of a later action. Option pricing isn't the issue it's the satisfaction of a promise to perform in the future. I just don't see it.

[D. Bergin]

Ebay can't even police retractions. Imagine them trying to police this nonsense.

[chalupacollects]

Buyer can claim item not delivered with credit card company after exercising the option.. wonder how that would sort out?

[bmattioli]

So someone paid $266.00 to place a BIN on the $425.00 Betts?? WTF..

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

So someone paid $266.00 to place a BIN on the $425.00 Betts?? WTF..

Or more likely, a bot account (or one of the many ebayers who doesn't read titles or descriptions) bid on the call thinking it was a card, and the call will be refunded.

[Dpeck100]

This may become a reality at some point with exchanges like Stock X listing cards but under no circumstances will this ever hold up on a random EBAY listing.

I personally think the oversight and cost to stay in compliance will deter exchanges like Stock X from doing this but as the card market brings in so much more money and fast money never say never.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The winner is just buying a call, exercisable by 9/14, to buy the card for $425. The strike could have been anywhere, where the higher the strike, the lower the value of the call. Option values are dependent on the strike (how it relates to current value, the time till expiration(more time—more valuable) and the price volatility of the underlying asset. The only issue I see is one of performance. If I ran Ebay I would say that these deals are fine, but the premium is held by eBay until either the option is exercised and the card is delivered or the option expires worthless. That way there is no risk of a seller taking the premium and disappearing.

part of the issue -- especially in modern day cards -- is buyers exploit the market by using 30-day seller return policies as a free call option. all sorts of price manipulation on comparable card sales happens in those 30-days, often leading to the perception that the card has risen dramatically in price. people buy into the idea that these revalued card prices are real and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[sando69]

just this morning i was thinking that what our hobby really needs is some serious "wall st" influence!
what a great idea...

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by sando69

just this morning i was thinking that what our hobby really needs is some serious "wall st" influence!
what a great idea...

I'd like to sell that million dollar Trout card short.

[Dpeck100]

Damn you must have deep pockets to be able to short something this valuable.

3.84 million was the hammer

[MikeGarcia]

..is it possible the IRS might have an interest in the selling of this card ? 28 % of final $$ ( minuspurchaseprice/AH fees ) would certainly pay for some overtime for my mail carrier......

..seriously though , how is something this large looked upon by the federal/state tax people ?


...

[joshuanip]

Concept will not work with cards -

too much counterparty risk, not just buying the derivative but also credit risk
no resale value on the option, buying an illiquid contract right,
So what if it is in the money and it expires, SOL
Or how do you even enforce the exercise?

Suckers bet.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sando69

just this morning i was thinking that what our hobby really needs is some serious "wall st" influence!
what a great idea...

-1. 😕
But I guess it's good for the hobby.....

[joshuanip]

Originally Posted by sando69

just this morning i was thinking that what our hobby really needs is some serious "wall st" influence!
what a great idea...

A better idea would be to create an exchange traded security based on marquise investments like the Honus Wagner card, babe Ruth rookie, 52 mantle.

That would be an option to gld