Ty Cobb’s Legacy

[Casey2296]

Cobb is one of my favorite players, he was actually quite a complex individual, highly intelligent, a good businessman, not well liked by his teammates or many in the league but quite generous as a human later in life.

I don't think he cared much whether he was liked by his peers, he wanted to win baseball games not popularity contests.

With a fortune acquired mostly through shrewd investments in real estate, General Motors and Coca Cola, donated $100,000 in his parents’ name for his hometown to build a 24-bed hospital, Cobb Memorial Hospital, now part of the Ty Cobb Healthcare System. He also established, in 1953, the Cobb Educational Fund, which awards scholarships to needy Georgia students bound for college, endowing it with a $100,000 donation.

Today, the Ty Cobb Healthcare System is a private self-supporting nonprofit health care organization consisting of Cobb Memorial Hospital, Cobb Memorial Outpatient Diagnostic Center, Brown Memorial Convalescent Center, Cobb Health Care Center, Home Base Health Services, Hart County Hospital, Cobb Center Apartments, Inc.

And every card needs a thread-

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[luciobar1980]

I think Skelly nailed it with "I think he was a complicated man, probably a cold and unfriendly person, but not the monster portrayed in Al Stump's biography."

[LincolnVT]

Unquestionably one of the best small ball / contact hitters of all time. When we look at other feared hitters in the pre-war era only a few others rise to the same level in my opinion…Wagner, Jackson and Ruth. That said, Cobb had a appetite for victory and could single handedly turn games in favor of his team by being in it to win it. That came in several forms…would have loved to watch him play.

[packs]

Cobb was not a racist. He was actually a very progressive guy and not at all like the caricature that was invented for him. Here is a quote from Cobb cited in the Independent Journal in January of 1952:

"Certainly it is O.K. for them to play," he said, "I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man, in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life.”

[Wanaselja]

There is nothing in the historical record to suggest Cobb was the racist of Stump’s novel. His father was an abolitionist as was his grandfather. Fierce competitor, yes. Fierce racist, no.

[Yoda]

Don't forget Cobb lived and played with the awful memory that his mother shot and killed his father, thinking that he was an intruder (maybe). I believe he spent his whole life, on and off the diamond, trying to show his father that he was a worthy son.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In 2010, an article by William R. Cobb (no relation to Ty) in the peer-reviewed The National Pastime, the official publication of the Society for American Baseball Research, accused Al Stump of extensive forgeries of Cobb-related baseball and personal memorabilia, including personal documents and diaries. Stump even falsely claimed to possess a shotgun used by Cobb's mother to kill his father (in a well-known 1905 incident officially ascribed to Mrs Cobb having mistaken her husband for an intruder). The shotgun later came into the hands of noted memorabilia collector Barry Halper. Despite the shotgun's notoriety, official newspaper and court documents of the time clearly show Cobb's father had been killed with a pistol. The article, and later expanded book,[5] further accused Stump of numerous false statements about Cobb, not only during and immediately after their 1961 collaboration, but also in Stump's later years, most of which were sensationalist in nature and intended to cast Cobb in an unflattering light.[1] Cobb's peer-reviewed research indicates that all of Stump's works (print and memorabilia) surrounding Ty Cobb are, at the very best, called into question and, at worst, "should be dismiss[ed] out of hand as untrue".[1]

[TRC4191]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In 2010, an article by William R. Cobb (no relation to Ty) in the peer-reviewed The National Pastime, the official publication of the Society for American Baseball Research, accused Al Stump of extensive forgeries of Cobb-related baseball and personal memorabilia, including personal documents and diaries. Stump even falsely claimed to possess a shotgun used by Cobb's mother to kill his father (in a well-known 1905 incident officially ascribed to Mrs Cobb having mistaken her husband for an intruder). The shotgun later came into the hands of noted memorabilia collector Barry Halper. Despite the shotgun's notoriety, official newspaper and court documents of the time clearly show Cobb's father had been killed with a pistol. The article, and later expanded book,[5] further accused Stump of numerous false statements about Cobb, not only during and immediately after their 1961 collaboration, but also in Stump's later years, most of which were sensationalist in nature and intended to cast Cobb in an unflattering light.[1] Cobb's peer-reviewed research indicates that all of Stump's works (print and memorabilia) surrounding Ty Cobb are, at the very best, called into question and, at worst, "should be dismiss[ed] out of hand as untrue".[1]

After the 2010 SABR article was published https://sabr.org/journal/article/the...e-storyteller/, I added the results of some follow-on research and printed it in book form. This book can be read on line at https://issuu.com/ty_cobb/docs/the_g...storyteller_-2

In 2020, SABR selected this article "for inclusion in SABR 50 at 50: The Society for American Baseball Research’s Fifty Most Essential Contributions to the Game."

[Tomi]

Would be nice if Ken Burns dedicated a documentary on Cobb since his Baseball series put it out there that he was racist. How many young kids are going to watch that and see it as fact when it obviously wasn't? I'm sure many collectors chose not to collect him because of all the stuff said about him. It's the least he could do.

[Touch'EmAll]

From what I understand, history has been rough on Cobb.

His mom shot his dad when he was 18.

Yes, he could be nasty on the diamond during his playing days. And the reputation followed him through life.

He gave money to needy retired ballplayers. He funded a new hospital. He established a Foundation to assist deserving residents of Georgia who needed financial assistance for college educations.

Late in life, Cobb commented that if he had his life to live over again, "I would have done things a little different... I would have had more friends."

[LEHR]

The best book I've read yet on Cobb and written by his grandson. Highly recommended to anyone who has a negative opinion of Ty Cobb.

[G1911]

Stumps book might be the actual worst non-fiction volume I have ever read. Not only is it wrong and a load of garbage, the author just completely made it all up himself. It’s not poor sourcing, or a hot take that ruins it, but the very direct and intentional lies by the scumbag who wrote it.

Too much is made of how Cobb might fit into current political correctness, and not enough about the actual assault and batteries he did commit.

I am hard pressed to think of a non political figure who has been smeared by so many lies after his life as Cobb has.

Best player of his time. Possibly the second greatest hitter ever. He has a legitimate case for it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Stumps book might be the actual worst non-fiction volume I have ever read. Not only is it wrong and a load of garbage, the author just completely made it all up himself. It’s not poor sourcing, or a hot take that ruins it, but the very direct and intentional lies by the scumbag who wrote it.

Too much is made of how Cobb might fit into current political correctness, and not enough about the actual assault and batteries he did commit.

I am hard pressed to think of a non political figure who has been smeared by so many lies after his life as Cobb has.

Best player of his time. Possibly the second greatest hitter ever. He has a legitimate case for it.

Richard Ben Cramer really trashed DiMaggio, seemingly unfairly, in HIS book.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Richard Ben Cramer really trashed DiMaggio, seemingly unfairly, in HIS book.

Cramer, and it has been awhile since I read it, used poor sourcing and printed every bad thing he could find about DiMaggio. His book is in that genre of Seymour Hersh’s Dark Side of Camelot, the gossipy ‘print every bad thing and eye catching dramatic claim’. As I recall it, Cramer has not been shown to have completely made everything up himself. His book I would also classify as hot garbage, but it isn’t the same as Stump. Stump didn’t report what any random woman claimed had happened and failed to question it because it suited his purpose (many are guilty of this), but invented lies himself that he knew were lies because he made them up.

[Exhibitman]

From the interviews with his contemporaries that I've read it sounds like he was more misanthrope than anything else.

[robw1959]

He was actually, according to a well researched biography, a warm and friendly guy - even magnanimous to some extent. I can back that up by the fact that Cobb lobbied for Crawford to be elected to the Hall even though Crawford was envious of Cobb and not friendly toward him at all throughout their career together on the Tigers team. Cobb was also good friends with Honus Wagner as well as other well known players of his day. Yes, he was a fierce competitor, but was evidently able to leave those emotions on the field.

[Tomi]

Worth the read.
https://syndication.bleacherreport.c...acist.amp.html

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Cobb is one of my favorite players, he was actually quite a complex individual, highly intelligent, a good businessman, not well liked by his teammates or many in the league but quite generous as a human later in life.

I don't think he cared much whether he was liked by his peers, he wanted to win baseball games not popularity contests.

With a fortune acquired mostly through shrewd investments in real estate, General Motors and Coca Cola, donated $100,000 in his parents’ name for his hometown to build a 24-bed hospital, Cobb Memorial Hospital, now part of the Ty Cobb Healthcare System. He also established, in 1953, the Cobb Educational Fund, which awards scholarships to needy Georgia students bound for college, endowing it with a $100,000 donation.

Today, the Ty Cobb Healthcare System is a private self-supporting nonprofit health care organization consisting of Cobb Memorial Hospital, Cobb Memorial Outpatient Diagnostic Center, Brown Memorial Convalescent Center, Cobb Health Care Center, Home Base Health Services, Hart County Hospital, Cobb Center Apartments, Inc.

And every card needs a thread-

-

Snapshot of Cobb during the groundbreaking ceremony for Cobb Memorial Hospital…

[Snowman]

I am not a fan of Ty Cobb. I think he is the epitome of a romanticized player. I believe that most of the bad things that were said of him are likely to have been at least some flavor of the truth. I also believe that he was a complex person whose heart likely softened as he aged and that he was also a product of his time and his environment. Losing his father as a teen likely didn't help.

I own zero Ty Cobb cards.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I believe that most of the bad things that were said of him are likely to have been at least some flavor of the truth.

But PWCC Is innocent. This really takes the cake

[bbcard1]

Unlike many, he understood that the world was bigger than he. A brilliant man financially, he amassed a fortune and was generous with it in both large ways and smaller ways, such as helping out former players who were down on their luck. Here's a decent article (sorry for the popups)

https://www.wealthmanagement.com/phi...philanthropist

Should you be inclined to remember Ty Cobb on this Giving Tuesday, might I suggest you give a gift to the Ty Cobb Educational Foundation:

https://tycobbfoundation.com

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I am not a fan of Ty Cobb. I think he is the epitome of a romanticized player. I believe that most of the bad things that were said of him are likely to have been at least some flavor of the truth. I also believe that he was a complex person whose heart likely softened as he aged and that he was also a product of his time and his environment. Losing his father as a teen likely didn't help.

I own zero Ty Cobb cards.

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Unlike many, he understood that the world was bigger than he. A brilliant man financially, he amassed a fortune and was generous with it in both large ways and smaller ways, such as helping out former players who were down on their luck. Here's a decent article (sorry for the popups)

https://www.wealthmanagement.com/phi...philanthropist

Should you be inclined to remember Ty Cobb on this Giving Tuesday, might I suggest you give a gift to the Ty Cobb Educational Foundation:

https://tycobbfoundation.com

Agree with complexity. To assume people as a caricature of their society makes an ass of you and me. I can think of many other people who should be viewed as complex rather than how history has painted them.

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