Kiki Cuyler cards are awesome

[hangman62]

Shirley, Shirley cant be his middle name

[Leon]

Originally Posted by hangman62

Shirley, Shirley cant be his middle name

Shirley is .....and this is moved to the pre-wwII front page....

[Chuck9788]

Thank you Jenx. I also have that card.

I'm not sure about the "Shirley" middle name, lol. However, I did get this info on why he was called "Kiki".

Kiki Cuyler : pronounced Kai Kai , Kai ler


"Two explanations have been given for the origin of Cuyler's nickname, "Kiki". In the first version, he had been known as "Cuy" for a long time. When a fly ball was hit to the Nashville outfield and it was judged to be Cuyler's play, the shortstop would call out "Cuy" and this call would be echoed by the second baseman. The echoed name caught on with Nashville's fans.

In the second explanation, "Kiki Cuyler" came from the player's stuttering problem and the way it sounded when Cuyler said his own last name".

[Brian Van Horn]

Chuck,

A couple for your viewing pleasure:

[h2oya311]

here are my favorite Kikis...

1925 Exhibits (rookie):


and the earliest image I have seen of him - from spring training of 1923 in Hot Springs, Arkansas (close-up from a team panorama I own):

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Due to his early death, Cuyler's autograph is almost never encountered on premium/oversized items. This item measures in at nearly 11X14 if I recall. This style of signature is equally rare, dating to early in his career. My research indicates he only seemed to employ this signature variation for about two years (note the formation of the K's).

[nat]

The 1930s were an exceptionally forgiving time for hitters. Surpassed only by 1993-2004ish. Cuyler's on-base plus slugging percentage was only about 25% better than league average. Compare to Matt Holliday at 32% better. While they are obviously very different players (Holliday isn't about to lead the league in stolen bases, which Cuyler did several times), in terms of over all value, Cuyler and Holliday are pretty similar. Cuyler was certainly a good player (so is Holliday), but he's on the weaker end of the hall of fame.

Unfortunately I don't have any Cuyler cards to show, but I liked that DeLong.

[jb217676]

Here's a cool 1931 PV Reyes Real Photo Postcard of Kiki Cuyler.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by nat

The 1930s were an exceptionally forgiving time for hitters. Surpassed only by 1993-2004ish. Cuyler's on-base plus slugging percentage was only about 25% better than league average. Compare to Matt Holliday at 32% better. While they are obviously very different players (Holliday isn't about to lead the league in stolen bases, which Cuyler did several times), in terms of over all value, Cuyler and Holliday are pretty similar. Cuyler was certainly a good player (so is Holliday), but he's on the weaker end of the hall of fame.

Jay Jaffe's new book "The Cooperstown Casebook" makes the same point, which is similar to what Bill James said in his Hall of Fame book 25 years ago. I don't have Jaffe's book at hand right now, but in terms of Wins Above Replacement (WAR) as calculated on baseball-reference.com, Cuyler had a lifetime total of 46.7. That's the 223rd best lifetime WAR total among position players, tied with Roy White, just behind Tommy Leach and Gene Tenace, just ahead of Mike Cameron and Matt Williams.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by nat

The 1930s were an exceptionally forgiving time for hitters. Surpassed only by 1993-2004ish. Cuyler's on-base plus slugging percentage was only about 25% better than league average. Compare to Matt Holliday at 32% better. While they are obviously very different players (Holliday isn't about to lead the league in stolen bases, which Cuyler did several times), in terms of over all value, Cuyler and Holliday are pretty similar. Cuyler was certainly a good player (so is Holliday), but he's on the weaker end of the hall of fame.

Unfortunately I don't have any Cuyler cards to show, but I liked that DeLong.

+1, generally. Cuyler played in the greatest hitter's era ever (runs were actually easier to score in 1927, when Ruth hit his 60 HR's, than in 1998, when McGwire hit 70, when comparing teams' runs averages per game (I was curious about this several months ago, and actually checked). Hence the somewhat deflationary effect attached to players' stats established during the 1920's to early '30's. He was, however, an outstanding player, though probably in the lowest of the three echelons of HOF'ers I usually divide them into.

Happy collecting,

Larry

[Prince Hal]

It's been a while since I read Bill James book "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame" but I seem to remember that it was his opinion that playing conditions greatly favored the hitters of that era, including Kiki Shirley, and that their offensive stats are bloated. In his mind this diminished their value and the value of the player as a HOFer.