What is the name of the t206 set?

conor912 · #1 05-01-2013, 06:42 PM

In other words, r319 is to 1933 Goudey as t206 is to ?

I realized today I have no idea. Is it just "white borders"?

T205 GB · #2 05-01-2013, 06:48 PM

T206, the monster, white boarders, ect. The first is the ATC name

auggiedoggy · #3 05-01-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

In other words, r319 is to 1933 Goudey as t206 is to ?

I realized today I have no idea. Is it just "white borders"?

Jefferson Burdick assigned this set with the ACC#: T-206. That is how most people I know refer to it. It is affectionately referred to as "The Monster" due to its size. As far as I know, there is no official name per se.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Burdick

Seattle799 · #4 05-01-2013, 07:12 PM

American Tobacco Company?

conor912 · #5 05-01-2013, 07:15 PM

I guess my point is, had Burdick not "classified" all of these sets that are only referred to by their ACC #'s, what would we call them? Seems kind of odd to me that a random guy gave them arbitrary "codes" at one point and now that's all their known by.

CW · #6 05-01-2013, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

I guess my point is, had Burdick not "classified" all of these sets that are only referred to by their ACC #'s, what would we call them? Seems kind of odd to me that a random guy gave them arbitrary "codes" at one point and now that's all their known by.

I think it was just a matter of being the first one to step up to the plate and do it, to Burdick's credit. That "one point" was also very early in this hobby's lifespan, and was done by an influential collector when not many people collected these pieces of cardboard. In many ways, Burdick's system had the historical luck of simply catching on and sticking.

IF Burdick had not given all these sets names, it's hard to say what someone else would've come up with. I'm guessing 1909-11 ATC baseball card inserts, or something boring like that.

Definitely nothing near as sexy as Tee-two-oh-six.

That's another weird thing -- we hear it referred to as T two OH six, but shouldn't it be T-two zero six, or T-two-hundred-and-six??

Regarding the proper name for the T206 "set"...

Back in the early 1900s, when ATC was providing these cards in packs of smokes, I don't think the concept of a "set" was even on their minds. To the producers of these cards, they were simply advertising tools to help sell more cigarettes/tobacco. They did want kids to collect and trade these cards, but I don't think they expected them to try and build a "set".

HercDriver · #7 05-01-2013, 08:14 PM

It's a compilation of a bunch of sets:

1909 Piedmont
1909 Sovereign
1909 Tolstoi
1909 Hindu
etc

You get the idea...

Cheers,
Geno

deadballfreaK · #8 05-01-2013, 09:12 PM

Funny. I hadn't heard the term "white borders" in years, but as I recall that was a common term back in the 70s.

Leon · #9 05-02-2013, 07:31 AM

All of the sets started out as a number only. Then in the 1940s Burdick started using letters to denote categories.

arc2q · #10 05-02-2013, 07:37 AM

Along these lines, my understanding is that the N in N162, for example, refers to Nineteenth Centry. Likewise, the T in T206 refers to Twentieth Century. Or is it generally felt the "T" refers to tobacco?

auggiedoggy · #11 05-02-2013, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HercDriver

It's a compilation of a bunch of sets:

1909 Piedmont
1909 Sovereign
1909 Tolstoi
1909 Hindu
etc

You get the idea...

Cheers,
Geno

Hence the "Monster" moniker!

auggiedoggy · #12 05-02-2013, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arc2q

Along these lines, my understanding is that the N in N162, for example, refers to Nineteenth Centry. Likewise, the T in T206 refers to Twentieth Century. Or is it generally felt the "T" refers to tobacco?

Both "N" and "T" indicated tobacco. N=19th century tobacco and T=20th century tobacco.

T206Collector · #13 05-02-2013, 07:56 AM

I think you will see early collectors referring to the T206 set as the "521" set. Not as you may think because there were 521 known subjects at the time, just because that is how it was initially catalogued by Burdick. You can see that moniker in some of the Card Collector's Bulletins that Leon occasionally posts. Before then, not sure it had a name. It was thusly described in 1937 as white border tobacco cards, with some of the same images as early caramel cards, and with several hundred examples known.

See, e.g., here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=bulletin

ullmandds · #14 05-02-2013, 08:03 AM

pre burdick...I'm guessing they were called "those boring white bordered cards that I can't give away?!?!?"

Just kidding of course!!!!

deucetwins · #15 05-02-2013, 05:53 PM

Is there a link out there that shows the nomenclature of all of Burdick's classifications? I've got some pre-war non-sports tobacco cards that I'm trying to classify.

Leon · #16 05-02-2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I think you will see early collectors referring to the T206 set as the "521" set. Not as you may think because there were 521 known subjects at the time, just because that is how it was initially catalogued by Burdick. You can see that moniker in some of the Card Collector's Bulletins that Leon occasionally posts. Before then, not sure it had a name. It was thusly described in 1937 as white border tobacco cards, with some of the same images as early caramel cards, and with several hundred examples known.

See, e.g., here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=bulletin

I believe T206 might first have been called Set Ss. by Burdick in Hobbies Magazine before The Card Collectors Bulletins started in March of 1936. If you want to read about some of the origins of modern collecting it's all right there on this board, in our Archive Center...which is the icon on the far right, in the row of icons, towards the top of each page. It is great reading for those interested in the history of our hobby. Here is what he said concerning T206; interesting what else he lumped with them too -

"Set Ss. Baseball Players (white Framed cards). Sweet Caporal, Cycle, Sovereign, Polar Bear, Old Mill and several candy and gum sets of similar designs." Burdick- Hobby Magazine March 1936

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=146010

.

gnaz01 · #17 05-03-2013, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deucetwins

Is there a link out there that shows the nomenclature of all of Burdick's .

American Card Catalog

arc2q · #18 05-03-2013, 06:38 AM

Leon-
I loved the articles from Hobby Magazine in the archives section. Reading about the early history of the hobby in Burdick's own words is fantastic. Scrolling down I found the article in which he talks about the decline of inserts. Contrary to what I had thought he says that no particular law prohibited the inclusion of cards in tobacco card packages but that manufacturers were happy to stop doing it for cost reasons (and WWII paper rationing). Thanks for posting this link.

MLB would want nothing to do with cigarette manufacturers including licensed cards in every pack now. But even reprints of the original T cards might be an interesting gimmick for marketing. Have any modern cigarette manufacturers tried this? Or are there laws against including inserts in actual cigarette packs today?