Question from a vintage noob. What exactly is a monster?

[the 'stache]

I'm more than happy to wear a dunce cap, and sit in the corner after asking this question, but can somebody tell me what a "monster" is exactly? I have an inkling that it has to do with a rare, or high dollar card, or maybe a weighted set registry. But my mother always taught me it was better to ask a question than to make a stupid assumption.

So, could somebody please enlighten me? I will be facing the wall awaiting an answer. Thank you.

[bbcard1]

Generally on this board it is the T206 set. It is called that because of its size (which depending on who you are talking to ranges between 512 and thousands of cards, taking in account for all the back variations). It is challenging to locate all the cards but not exceedingly difficult. The finances, grade and variations make it a monster of a project to complete. As the owner of a 520 set, it also does tend to take a life of its own on.

[the 'stache]

Thank you for the answer.

Do some of you guys collect the T206 with one specific card back only? For instance, do all of the cards exist with the Sweet Caporal backing?

[the 'stache]

One other question. Does the T206 Wagner ever hit Ebay, or are those pretty much exclusive to auctions?

[jimivintage]

Check out t206resource.com. There are others like it too, but it will answer many of your questions, I'm sure.

[arc2q]

The "T206 Wagner" does hit Ebay frequently but is ALWAYS a fake. Even the most beat-up example would command $300,000 or more so is rendered almost exclusively to auction houses these days. The T206 Plank does show up on Ebay from time-to-time for reasons that aren't entirely clear; maybe it is to avoid the auction house commissions.

This is a fantastic resource analyzing in clear prose the front to back relationships of the T206 set. This is a good read in general about the history of the T206 set but also a great source answering why certain cards only appear with certain backs, etc.

http://www.oldcardboard.com/t/t206/I...al-edition.pdf

[ullmandds]

REAL t206 wagners occasionally hit ebay...but usually at overinflated BIN prices...not all are FAKE!

[T206Collector]

I put a set of 521 together over 10 years, culminating in a mass exodus of cards from that set in April 2007. The only reason I even glimpsed at the backs of the cards was because I knew other collectors will pay a premium for some. I would always sell those and buy more cards with common backs. I was a front collector exclusively.

Talk about taking on a life of its own, my "MONSTER" is now autographed T206 cards. I have 39 unique poses signed, if you count Mrs. Jane Mathewson and Mrs. Blanche McGraw's signatures on their husbands' cards. A complete "set" of those would be perhaps 60 or so. I've been stuck on 39 for two years, and have few prospects to acquire the others, including the following known examples:

Bresnahan Batting
Cobb Red
Cobb Green
Cobb Bat On
Speaker
Chance Yellow (though I've always doubted this one given Chance's date of death)
Lajoie (Batting)
Clarke (Portrait)
Cicotte
Phillippe
Walsh
Donie Bush (should be more common but isn't for some reason)
Cravath
Lobert (should be more common but isn't for some reason)
Rucker (Throwing)
Wilstse (Portrait)
Zimmerman
Boss Schmidt (Net54 member claims ownership, but never produced scan)
Oscar Stanage (Net54 member claims ownership, but never produced scan)
George Moriarity (Net54 member claims ownership, but never produced scan)

If you've got one of these and are inclined to help me, please send me an email.

[Zach Wheat]

Bill,

I am used to seeing you on the Post-80's side. Don't tell me you are officially coming over to the Dark Side.

Others correct me if I am wrong, but I believe The Moster originated with Bill Heitman and his monograph (cover below) which was originally printed in 1980.

To those interested in the evolution of the understanding of the set, you can still purchase one on eBay.

[Zach Wheat]

And here is a scan of one of the pages inside.....I have yet to find the elusive T206 of Farrah. I hear it is as rare as a Wagner.

[jimivintage]

If you ask me though, the true "monster" would be the Old Judge set. Can't even imagine. I've owned two in my lifetime and that's about all I plan to do unless I land a few HOFers for my HOF collection, but I can't imagine even one person attempting that set even if you are rich!

[arc2q]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

REAL t206 wagners occasionally hit ebay...but usually at overinflated BIN prices...not all are FAKE!

You're definitely right (and more knowledgeable than me). I do recall relatively recently a Wagner was listed on ebay but it was one that was known to exist and with verifiable authenticity. It is probably safe to say if one shows up on eBay unannounced it is fake....especially if it is a faded 1890's photograph of a man who looks vaguely like the "Prince of Baseball" -- but who may or may not be a baseball player -- and is listed for $1,000,000 with a rambling 11,000 word description.

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Thank you for the answer.

Do some of you guys collect the T206 with one specific card back only? For instance, do all of the cards exist with the Sweet Caporal backing?

Not all cards with sweet caporal back but many are avalaible with the SC back.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Bill,

I am used to seeing you on the Post-80's side. Don't tell me you are officially coming over to the Dark Side.

No worries, Zach Wheat, I will still be a frequent poster there, too. I'm never going to give up modern card collecting.

I don't think I could ever exclusively collect new or old. I love the entire history of the game too much to limit myself. I've collected modern cards pretty much exclusively to this point because to collect vintage cards (to do it properly, avoiding those that would try to take advantage of a buyer), it takes real knowledge that I simply have not had. I am learning quickly, though, so I will be able to buy a little of everything.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Not all cards with sweet caporal back but many are avalaible with the SC back.

Thank you, Nelson.

I am eagerly soaking this up guys, and enjoying the discussion. Thank you!

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Thank you, Nelson.

I am eagerly soaking this up guys, and enjoying the discussion. Thank you!

For example, the Magie error card or the doyle nat l cards are only in piedmont back

[Sean]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

For example, the Magie error card or the doyle nat l cards are only in piedmont back

And O'Hara and Demmitt St. Louis variations are only with Polar Bears.

[the 'stache]

I'm beginning to understand, guys. I've started reading the "Inside T206" pdf. I'm absolutely fascinated.

I am going to own some of these beauties! I might collect them slowly, as I want to buy post war and modern cards, too. But I will be building my collection.

[Pythonfactory]

Originally Posted by arc2q

The "T206 Wagner" does hit Ebay frequently but is ALWAYS a fake. Even the most beat-up example would command $300,000 or more so is rendered almost exclusively to auction houses these days. The T206 Plank does show up on Ebay from time-to-time for reasons that aren't entirely clear; maybe it is to avoid the auction house commissions.

This is a fantastic resource analyzing in clear prose the front to back relationships of the T206 set. This is a good read in general about the history of the T206 set but also a great source answering why certain cards only appear with certain backs, etc.

http://www.oldcardboard.com/t/t206/I...al-edition.pdf

Thanks for sharing this Andy! Great read.

[travrosty]

the most famous wagner card was put on ebay once in a high profile auction, but normally they are consigned to the sports auction houses like goldin auctions, goodwin, lelands.