Unbelievable (?) Buy at Athens Flea Market

[D. Bergin]

Pretty good day at the flea market…for the seller.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I don't see even one card that I feel comfortable with.

[jingram058]

I prefer and collect raw cards. But this, wow.

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Pretty good day at the flea market…for the seller.

Dave lol

[rhettyeakley]

Hopefully he didn't spend too much on a bunch of pretty bad fakes.


Whenever you find a collection for sale always ask yourself the following question...

"Where have all the Carlton Willey's gone?"

by this I mean other than in a Major Auction House where would you ever find cards spanning 4 to 5 decades without a single common (like Carlton Willey) player in the bunch?

It just never happens in the wild and should immediately make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up that something isn't right.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Hopefully he didn't spend too much on a bunch of pretty bad fakes.


Whenever you find a collection for sale always ask yourself the following question...

"Where have all the Carlton Willey's gone?"

by this I mean other than in a Major Auction House where would you ever find cards spanning 4 to 5 decades without a single common (like Carlton Willey) player in the bunch?

It just never happens in the wild and should immediately make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up that something isn't right.

Very true. But the swap meet seller did throw in a token 'Carlton Willey' with the E92 Bridwell (or perhaps the card has a T206 Piedmont back).

Brian

[ChiefBeef]

A little more information concerning the thought all are fakes. i do not feel one can know that for sure from a bunch of low res photos on a website, but what do i know. That is why I ask. Am willing to listen and learn.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ChiefBeef

A little more information concerning the thought all are fakes. i do not feel one can know that for sure from a bunch of low res photos on a website, but what do i know. That is why I ask. Am willing to listen and learn.

#1 is that the stocks are almost all completely wrong at even a quick glance. These are not good fakes requiring detailed examination. The Wagner/Cobb is a card that does not even exist at all. There are numerous other indicators regarding the wear, aging patterns, color washout etc. Some of them, if you look them up on Etsy, are also clearly a copy of those fakes and that was the origin source.

Any time we have a thread like this, a number of folks will ID the fakes that are less egregiously bad or are at an angle that doesn't highlight the stock problem as real. The Fleer Koufax, the Look N See, they are also fakes just slightly better or at an angle that doesn't as clearly highlight the wrong stock problem.

These cards are fake, but the buyer can probably sell them for a considerable profit and pass it. A lot of these routinely hit $100 on eBay from people who don't do research.

[Smarti5051]

There is also the "how stupid is the dumbest person" problem. To assume that a decent percentage of these are real, you have to assume that a seller at a flea market knows just enough about sportscards to know they are worth hundreds of dollars, yet too stupid to do even 2 minutes of research to see how valuable his wares might be. Also, assuming the pictures represent how the cards were presented at the flea market, the seller either had card collecting supplies (sheets and card savers) or went to a card store or online to acquire them to protect them. Again, if you have a level of knowledge that such cards may be valuable and need protecting, I doubt you just package them up in a lot of 100 cards with no research at all what is even an approximate value. It would have been slightly more believable if they were found loose in an old cigar or Hostess Ding Dongs box.

Finally, I go back to the "dumbest person" problem. I know nothing about women's fashions. If I inherited a closet of shoes, I would have no idea of their value. But, if I saw names I had heard of before printed on the shoes, I would at least Google for 3 mins to see if they are worth anything. Typing "Babe Ruth autograph value" pulls up a Google result page where nothing is under $15,000. I am not just tossing that in a lot of other names I have heard of and slapping a $500 price tag.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by ChiefBeef

A little more information concerning the thought all are fakes. i do not feel one can know that for sure from a bunch of low res photos on a website, but what do i know. That is why I ask. Am willing to listen and learn.

In the words of Potter Stewart, “I know it when I see it.”

[raulus]

So many perfectly centered cards! And from issues where centering is almost always a challenge.

This collector must have had an amazing eye for centering, and must have been incredibly picky about the pieces they kept, even decades before anyone really focused on centering very much. The collector must have been related to Snowman.

Or they could just all be fakes that happen to have perfect centering. Take your pick.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ChiefBeef

A little more information concerning the thought all are fakes. i do not feel one can know that for sure from a bunch of low res photos on a website, but what do i know. That is why I ask. Am willing to listen and learn.

When surrounded by rabid wolves, you don't hold out your hand to hope one is nice enough to let you pet him. 90% of the group should be obvious fakes to a moderately knowledgeable vintage collector. Do you stake your money on someone who obviously loaded the group with fake flash that they then somehow mistakenly provided a real card? I wouldn't take that bet in a lifetime.

I will not give away more methods than I am comfortable with on a public forum, however I am very comfortable saying the remainder are also fake. Obvious markers that are well known are the general fuzziness of reprints, the artificial aging is all poorly done, and not a one of these post war items is not perfectly centered by the counterfeiter. There are innumerable other signs, but it's unnecessary to add,

If you have any belief in one of these cards I would suggest an Etsy search for the card and you can find the reprinted card with the exact same printing fingerprints shown (registration, centering, coloring) in a couple minutes. Granted the seller added a little sandpapering and additional aging on many like on the Star Jordan here,

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1678253...search_click=1

...However, they can all be identified. It's kinda weak that the scammer likely ordered them all from the exact same source...that's very little effort.

[D. Bergin]

Taking bets on whether this flea market dealer has another pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow when he sets up next week, with remarkably similar looking cards.

[TAFKADixie]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Taking bets on whether this flea market dealer has another pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow when he sets up next week, with remarkably similar looking cards.

It was actually a woman and I THINK she brought the box to the guy who has a permanent spot there selling mostly records/comics/magazines.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ChiefBeef

A little more information concerning the thought all are fakes. i do not feel one can know that for sure from a bunch of low res photos on a website, but what do i know. That is why I ask. Am willing to listen and learn.

Unfortunately feelings don't enter into it. I get fooled online occasionally, it happens to the best of us, which is why I only said I don't feel comfortable with any of them. I could literally go card by card and tell you what my concerns are though, as could any number of other members. Of course a lot of times when you make the effort to help someone out, the concerned party just gets mad and tells you "you don't know what you're talking about." To take a lot of time and effort (and describing the problems of each card would take a LOT of time) to help someone only to be lashed out at, isn't high on my list of priorities.

Also, when over half of them are obvious fakes why would the remainder be real? That would make no sense.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Whenever you find a collection for sale always ask yourself the following question...

"Where have all the Carlton Willey's gone?"

I imagine most of our collections contain Cobb and Ruth and no Carlton Willeys.

[butchie_t]

I guess someone is happy, regrettably not gonna be the buyer though.

[ALR-bishop]

I have every Topps Carlton Willey card. His 59 is my favorite.

[Yoda]

The autographed #106 '33 Goudey Lajoie is just pathetic, the worst one in the lot IMO. The original was auctioned off in the Copeland Auction and has found a few new homes since then.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I imagine most of our collections contain Cobb and Ruth and no Carlton Willeys.

I know I have the above hobby trifecta!


Brian (not my Willey, because I can't seem to keep mine in my pants when I am ready to scan it)