SPORTS CARD RADIO (anonymus PSA "insider")

[drcy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I really don't believe that because nothing is being done now and it's business as usual this story is over. Somebody is going to look at this as a golden opportunity to build a better mousetrap, and to enter the third party grading business with technology that is capable of exposing all of these altered cards. Then anybody who tries to sell an altered card in a slab will find that no auction house will accept it unless it's clearly stated in the lot description something along the lines of "this card was once deemed an 8 but now has been revealed as having the corners built up." As such, those cards will be dead in the water.

Maybe business as usual today, but this will end very badly. And the registry will offer no protection.

I agree, except I think the altered cards will be worth less rather than dead in the water. Worth less not worthless.

I've long said I thinking pricing and valuation of the cards will change, in various ways.

Even if altered card are accepted, I don't think theer will be the same cache (cash) between, say, a 9 and a 10.

Another question to ponder is, if PSA can identify alterations (someday), how will they treat resubmitted cards? If they are able to identify all the alterations they previously missed, how will the deal with all the misgraded cards out there? Perhaps they hope they are unable to better identify alterations in the future.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by drcy

I agree, except I think the altered cards will be worth less rather than dead in the water. Worth less not worthless.

The value of the space between worth and less = .2361*the value in the original PSA slab, which greater than the value without the space..

I've long said I thinking pricing and valuation of the cards will change, in various ways.

Even if altered card are accepted, I don't think theer will be the same cache (cash) between, say, a 9 and a 10.

If true, you will get something for nothing (the space), but you will lose your shirt in the process.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by drcy

I agree, except I think the altered cards will be worth less rather than dead in the water. Worth less not worthless.

I've long said I thinking pricing and valuation of the cards will change, in various ways.

Even if altered card are accepted, I don't think theer will be the same cache (cash) between, say, a 9 and a 10.

Another question to ponder is, if PSA can identify alterations (someday), how will they treat resubmitted cards? If they are able to identify all the alterations they previously missed, how will the deal with all the misgraded cards out there? Perhaps they hope they are unable to better identify alterations in the future.

If I had a PSA card that I wanted reevaluated under the latest grading method using all technology has to offer, the last company I would want to do it would be PSA. To say they would have a conflict of interest would be an understatement along the lines of an example Peter came up with -- a person upon seeing Noah standing on his ark announcing that a passing shower is coming.

For this reason, even if PSA somehow overcomes the legal hurdle of patent infringement and manages to come up with a way to compete with a new company that uses the latest technology, I would think the new company would have a huge leg up, as who in his/her right mind would prefer PSA over this new company for purposes of reevaluating a PSA card?

[drcy]

Some people are saying "PSA will do this," "Registry will do that."

However, if the FBI and criminal prosecutions involving false grading are involved, the question will be how much say will PSA and Registry people in it? PSA may hope "Let's hope it all just blows over and people accept altered cards," and Registry people may say the same. However, if the FBI says these altered cards and the selling thereof (as non-alerted) is a criminal offense, and all these misgraded cards in the Registry are products of criminal or whatever behavior, PSA and Registry won't be able to just ignore it-- certainly not at resale time and grading time.

I think their hands will be forced.

At the least, the altered cards will have to be overtly labelled as altered (How the hobby prices those then is another matter), and PSA will have to address the altered cards. PSA will not be allowed to "whistle by the graveyard" or "grandfather clause" all their past mistakes . . . As I said in previous post, what does PSA now do when altered cards are resubmitted for grading? The now know many are altered, and the now know the FBI is involved. And what does the hobby as a whole now do, with so many people who resubmit cards hoping for a better grade? This all changes things a lot, and not in a way that PSA will be fond of.

I firmly believe that PSA will have to address in serious fashion all the altered cards that they misgraded-- and there a ton of them, involving lots of $$ and a boatload of card owners, including wealthy Registry folk, who aren't going to be happy when their cards are addressed in serious fashion. Tell me how this isn't a problem, or at least a conundrumm (including in a legal sense), for PSA and Registry set owners?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by drcy

Some people are saying "PSA will do this," "Registry will do that."

However, if the FBI and criminal prosecutions involving false grading are involved, the question will be how much say will PSA and Registry people in it? PSA may hope "Let's hope it all just blows over and people accept altered cards," and Registry people may say the same. However, if the FBI says these altered cards and the selling thereof (as non-alerted) is a criminal offense, and all these misgraded cards in the Registry are products of criminal or whatever behavior, PSA and Registry won't be able to just ignore it-- certainly not at resale time and grading time.

I think their hands will be forced.

At the least, the altered cards will have to be overtly labelled as altered (How the hobby prices those then is another matter), and PSA will have to address the altered cards. PSA will not be allowed to "whistle by the graveyard" or "grandfather clause" all their past mistakes . . . As I said in previous post, what does PSA now do when altered cards are resubmitted for grading? The now know many are altered, and the now know the FBI is involved. And what does the hobby as a whole now do, with so many people who resubmit cards hoping for a better grade? This all changes things a lot, and not in a way that PSA will be fond of.

I firmly believe that PSA will have to address in serious fashion all the altered cards that they misgraded-- and there a ton of them, involving lots of $$ and a boatload of card owners, including wealthy Registry folk, who aren't going to be happy when their cards are addressed in serious fashion. Tell me how this isn't a problem, or at least a conundrumm (including in a legal sense), for PSA and Registry set owners?

The points you raise are prescient, and at the National I had conversations with the FBI about them. The discussion centered around a business model that cannot detect expertly done alterations, yet attracting business by giving prospective customers the impression that it can. At the very least PSA should be required to give a warning about the limitations of the services it provides, much the same way, say, cigarette manufacturers have to include a warning about the health dangers of smoking. Unless, though, PSA felt they would be exposed to criminal liability by not providing such a disclosure, I would think legislation would be required to accomplish it.

I don't know what if any impact the current FBI involvement will have on PSA, but I can say that based on my discussions with the FBI, I got the impression that they seem well aware of the limitations of the PSA business model.

[oldjudge]

The link in the OP’s post starts with the following statement:

Sports Card Radio recently obtained an anonymous letter from a believed PSA insider.

If what follows is true, involving some significant names in the hobby, it is really troubling. However, given the seriousness of the allegations, I would hope there is more behind it than an anonymous letter from a believed PSA insider. Anyone making these types of accusations should have to disclose their name and explain how they know these facts. Otherwise, reputations can be ruined for no reason.

[mferronibc]

Originally Posted by drcy

Another question to ponder is, if PSA can identify alterations (someday), how will they treat resubmitted cards? If they are able to identify all the alterations they previously missed, how will the deal with all the misgraded cards out there? Perhaps they hope they are unable to better identify alterations in the future.

I think PSA is well aware of what a slippery slope this is. Even if they are coming up with more advanced technology to identify alterations in response to what is going on, I think there will be a lot of hesitation to roll it out. They'll basically have thousands of people who paid $$$ for a high graded card 5 years ago resubmitting and now being told the same card is altered and only worth $ and collectors will demand the $$ difference from PSA as it was their oversight in the first place when it was originally graded. Class action anyone??

I think it is going to take a new company with better technology to take on PSA and dethrone them as king (as least initially until this new company becomes just as corrupt over time and we're back where we started).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by mferronibc

I think PSA is well aware of what a slippery slope this is. Even if they are coming up with more advanced technology to identify alterations in response to what is going on, I think there will be a lot of hesitation to roll it out. They'll basically have thousands of people who paid $$$ for a high graded card 5 years ago resubmitting and now being told the same card is altered and only worth $ and collectors will demand the $$ difference from PSA as it was their oversight in the first place when it was originally graded. Class action anyone??

I think it is going to take a new company with better technology to take on PSA and dethrone them as king (as least initially until this new company becomes just as corrupt over time and we're back where we started).

Lots of excellent insight in all of these posts, but I think the quote above says it best. Any new technology model that's introduced cannot involve or be utilized by PSA. There is just way too much conflict of interest. PSA is never going to take on the massive liability that would result from the thousands of previously slabbed cards being exposed as tainted.

They've already demonstrated they cannot be trusted, and that their only true loyalty is to shareholders and profits. As said earlier, any new TPG that enters the fray must provide a significant point of difference, in order to survive. They cannot just emulate what PSA is doing. Perhaps this includes a radically different grading scale, or simply deeming whether a given card is altered or original. In time, I believe that many collectors would embrace it.

In other words, the time is ripe for a new VEHICLE, baby!


Ps. Agree completely... great tune - great memories - cringe-worthy lyrics.