Help identifying possible fake w517 Rogers Hornsby

[Dbcstl]

Yes it was sold on eBay by PCB Comics and Sports.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37520051958...mis&media=COPY

I was the high bidder, and although this card looks really good in the scans, and the height looks good with the cut line at bottom visible, the width looks a bit skinny. What is truly concerning is I noticed a hallmark of the image of this card seems to be missing. It's on all the exhibits, and all the other w517s I can search out. It used to detract me from buying the card in the past because it looks like they are creased in the upper right hand corner, but that line seems to be inexplicably photoshopped out of this card. Can anyone else confirm I'm not crazy and some of these were issued with that airbrushed out?
I did express my concern to the seller and I received a slightly less than adequate response that I will post as a follow up.

Btw I was the winning bidder.

Thank you.

Photo added with 2 examples graded that show the spot that seems to be photoshopped out of the photo from the auction, or the card may just be not authentic at all. Is there anyone that is very familiar with this set and all its variations?

[Dbcstl]

This was the message I sent to pcbcomicsandsports

After further review of the picture of this card I believe it to either be altered, inauthentic, or the picture misrepresented or photoshopped. I want it to be legitimate as I really do want the card, I just can't ignore the issue I'm seeing. Can you please send me further images front and back of the card I bid on to ease my concerns? I know there can be a secondary reason you would put a card like this in a lot to not have deal with eBay authentication, but that adds to the fear it isn't what it should be.

The reponses

Hi,

The card is 100 percent authentic. This card was purchased from one of the largest auction houses in the United States and is being sold on consignment. I've been a top rated seller on eBay for more than 20 years.

Thanks,

Bobby

And then-

Hi,

I was also going to say that if you're having concerns with the card I can just sell it to the runner up bidder if you prefer or I can re list the card. Either way works for me if you don't want it.

Thanks,

Bobby

[Smarti5051]

There is almost ZERO reason to throw in $1 worth of junk wax cards into that auction to make it a "lot." That is like adding a Tide Pod and a paper clip to a Morton's steak plate. Unless he can articulate a VERY credible reason why he felt it necessary to add a bunch of junk wax cards to make the auction a lot, I would run away fast. Not to mention, he claims the card is being sold on consignment. Did the consignor give him the Hornsby and then 6 random junk wax cards and request they be sold as a lot?

I should also note that he only vouched as to the card's authenticity, not your concern that the card has been altered. I don't know the issue well enough to speak to the authenticity/condition, but on the surface the listing seems shady.

[Dbcstl]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

There is almost ZERO reason to throw in $1 worth of junk wax cards into that auction to make it a "lot." That is like adding a Tide Pod and a paper clip to a Morton's steak plate. Unless he can articulate a VERY credible reason why he felt it necessary to add a bunch of junk wax cards to make the auction a lot, I would run away fast. Not to mention, he claims the card is being sold on consignment. Did the consignor give him the Hornsby and then 6 random junk wax cards and request they be sold as a lot?

I should also note that he only vouched as to the card's authenticity, not your concern that the card has been altered. I don't know the issue well enough to speak to the authenticity/condition, but on the surface the listing seems shady.

They rather notoriously list 100s of pretty mint looking raw vintage cards a week with these junk wax lots to get around eBay's authentication, which in most cases is rather annoying, as they aren't going to do anything about altered or trimmed cards, just fakes to my knowledge... On non graded cards I agree it comes off a bit shady.

[cgjackson222]

Its probably trimmed. Could be airbrushed too. Did you see this thread about the seller?

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=335127

[Lucas00]

How is this seller still not banned from ebay? The insane hoops they jump through to get feedback altered/removed and making cards into lots to circumvent the authentication as well as being the largest known current seller of trimmed cards is just baffling and honestly infuriating. I think I'd take pwcc shilled auctions over this seller.

[FrankWakefield]

The Hornsby without that line looks suspicious.

Have you illuminated both sides of the card with a black light??? If either side or the edges fluoresce then you have your answer, for sure. Get a uv light and let us know the results.

[JustinD]

It's suspect, I don't think I can remember a W517 Hornsby without that scratch ever in my life. I would take them up on the offer of cancelling.

Also, like the majority of us...don't buy from that seller.

Edited to add -
Scott above is unquestionably correct, the word lot is a bigger warning sign than getting in a cab with a driver that just dropped an empty fifth of cheap whiskey from the window. Turn and run, especially if they capitalized it for you in the title.

[BabyRuth]

This board is amazing - you learn something new everyday here. Here's my Hornsby from my set (with the line!!!)

[FromVAtoLA]

The other thing that sticks out to me is how sharp and defined the black border is around the picture. In the other examples the black border doesn’t have a perfectly defined edge around the entire perimeter. If you look closely there’s a tiny bit of missing ink here or the slightest bit of ink over the edge there. (Example - look just above the heal to the right, on the black border of the first psa 8.5.) Maybe it’s the resolution of the images but the black edges on the border of the picture on eBay are nearly perfect…perhaps too perfect.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by BabyRuth

This board is amazing - you learn something new everyday here. Here's my Hornsby from my set (with the line!!!)

Yes, It's easily overlooked.

I have always thought it was a scratch in the negative as it runs across all color types and just doesn't seem to have the same characteristics of a plate scratch. There might be one without somewhere if it is indeed a plate scratch, please post it if someone has the missing link. I would love to see one!

[chalupacollects]

Looks like a faked copy, image is way fuzzy compared to the other examples shown. For instance, take a look at the sharpness of the dugout lines in the background. Is that really a scratched plate or is it a cable running as part of the stadium in the background?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Looks like a faked copy, image is way fuzzy compared to the other examples shown. For instance, take a look at the sharpness of the dugout lines in the background. Is that really a scratched plate or is it a cable running as part of the stadium in the background?

Could very well be a cable.

I don't know if the Hornsby picture was taken at Wrigley, as it seems to have a very different background from the picture of Hack Wilson at Wrigley (I think) below, but thought I'd share the pic anyway. Note that I do think that the Cubs had an alternate home jersey with pin stripes added in 1930, so the Hornsby pic might possibly be at Wrigley.

The other picture of Hornsby is completely unrelated, but still has a cable in the upper right.

[The Detroit Collector]

I have dealt with the seller before. I do not like them. The photos in the listing are not what the card actually looks like. Keep that in mind with your next moves. I have bought a Earl Averill Goudey wide from them. photos below. The card when received looked nothing like the listing. I had it returned and refunded.

[NiceDocter]

No need to be a card doctor anymore..... now just jack around with Photoshop and hope the customer doesnt pay attention to the real card condition when it arrives. We live in an age where many have no honor. Let the buyers beware!

[Dbcstl]

It really does look like the image was cleaned up in photoshop like the Earl Averill posted above. That's the only thing that makes sense for that line across the top right corner to not be there. Looks like maybe someone got to aggressive with it and didn't realize that was removed.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Dbcstl

Yes it was sold on eBay by PCB Comics and Sports.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37520051958...mis&media=COPY

I was the high bidder, and although this card looks really good in the scans, and the height looks good with the cut line at bottom visible, the width looks a bit skinny. What is truly concerning is I noticed a hallmark of the image of this card seems to be missing. It's on all the exhibits, and all the other w517s I can search out. It used to detract me from buying the card in the past because it looks like they are creased in the upper right hand corner, but that line seems to be inexplicably photoshopped out of this card. Can anyone else confirm I'm not crazy and some of these were issued with that airbrushed out?
I did express my concern to the seller and I received a slightly less than adequate response that I will post as a follow up.

Btw I was the winning bidder.

Thank you.

Photo added with 2 examples graded that show the spot that seems to be photoshopped out of the photo from the auction, or the card may just be not authentic at all. Is there anyone that is very familiar with this set and all its variations?

If I were you in this case I would immediately file an official return through Ebay.

You will be covered. This card is very suspect. The seller did not even show a back scan of the card. The extras he added in the lot is a joke.

Sorry you have to go through this.