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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

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  #1  
Old 06-09-2007, 03:50 PM
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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

Whilst we appreciate how upset active buyers can become when it comes
to the subject of "book bids," said tactic has been practiced by the
major auction houses around the world for more than 200 years.

Furthermore, said auction houses do not, in any way shape or form
pretend to hide the fact that they have the right, and perhaps, in their
view, the obligation, to bid on the consignor's behalf.

What surprises us is the large number of postings regarding the
concept of integrity. If there is one word which is not generally
associated with baseball memorabilia and baseball card collecting
that word is integrity

(1) Millions of dollars of fake autographs and non-game used bats are sold
in each year

(2) According to some distinguished Board Members nearly every other very
high grade pre-war card has been trimmed or otherwise manipulated

(3) Dealers, especially those at large card shows are not particularly
adverse to telling "white lies or some cases big lies." For example,
we recently attended a show where a dealer had a card he won e-bay
(less than 2 weeks prior to the show) f$or $4500. When asked if this
was his best price he said he had paid 3500 and that the best he
could do was $4000. As fate would have it, we were the underbidder
and the dealer in question actually paid $2250. We passed because
we had knowledge of the sale and we checked the price guide.

When we came back to the dealer with the matching PSA grade number and
a copy of the E-Bay print out- he suddenly remembered that the
correct price and lowered his best price to $3000.

Whilst we passed, we did demonstrate to a number of people at the
dealer's table that they were dealing with a liar...and that caused him
him to lose several customers.

Isn't this "dealer's" action far worse that a book bid...because he is not
telling the truth and creating a false story in order to make a sale?

What he should do is the say the price is $4500 and that is firm
or it is $4500 and he will listen to offers.

The point, of course, is that some people who are quick to blast
the major auction houses commit far worse sins when they are
the seller rather than the buyer

What do you think?



Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Old 06-09-2007, 03:58 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Bruce,

You brought up a good point. To my friends, I always say that the only thing worse than a used car salesman is a used card salesman. By this I mean simply be very careful before you buy.

Peter

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Old 06-09-2007, 04:23 PM
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Posted By: mr. moses

tells the truth. We are surprised. Just because someone at a show made something up; you feel that act justifies the behavior of an auction house to bid for a consignor IN SECRET to escalate the price of an item in addition to or exclusive of having a reserve (also most often not revealed). The seller you spoke of is dishonest. The auction house is dishonest. I will identify acts of dishonesty for you if you point them out to me. Smoke and mirrors.....

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Old 06-09-2007, 04:34 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yes, I'm not sure that the lie of one seller (which happens all the time - agreed) somehow justifies the dishonesty in the corporate auction world. Can't we just lop off all their heads?

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Old 06-09-2007, 04:35 PM
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Posted By: MikeU

Good story. Those actions are good for we.

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Old 06-09-2007, 04:38 PM
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Posted By: dennis

at least the lying seller gave you a price. take it or make your best offer and walk if he says no.the shilling auction house can keep bidding up the item and the potential bidders think they are competing against a real buyer. imo this auction shilling(thats what it is) is far worse.

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:25 PM
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Posted By: Rhys

Bruce

Your assertions about the amount of fake memorabilia and altered cards are exactly why people WANT TO FIND HONEST PEOPLE/AUCTION HOUSES TO DEAL WITH.

Rhys

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:31 PM
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Posted By: Bob C


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/460862/an_improv_comedy_blues_song_about_liars/

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:43 PM
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Posted By: Mark

I hope someone does to that dealer as he'd have done to you. As the expression goes, a "We for a We!"

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Old 06-09-2007, 05:54 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Unfortunately, Bruce probably understates the amount of fraud that is being perpetrated in the Hobby. Well done counterfeits may not be discovered for quite a while. Also, a booming vintage market leads to situations where the buyer did not recieve what was advertised but at the same time they did recieve a valuable card that is increasing in value so the buyer doesn't report the fraud.

Peter

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Old 06-09-2007, 06:11 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

There is a lot of money floating around in this business, as Jeff Lichtman has pointed out on several occasions this is an unregulated industry, and the truth is often in short supply. Bruce called the dealer's bluff, and he got what he deserved. Also, collectors can be very anxious and impulsive, and don't always exercise good judgment. I've been in the hobby long enough to have seen it all, so none of this surprises me.

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Old 06-10-2007, 01:28 AM
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Posted By: Cobby33

We agree. This shady-ness happens in most any business where commodity is turned for a quick profit- which has been going on for more than 200 years.

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