Latest Pickups

[Nsucolonel]

Here a few of my most recent pick ups. I'm just getting into boxing cards. Really love the look of the the N174's

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nDnVHUTFCLLgrV288

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6oLUagFwk8WLP7mc8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MbtnYPeXn2T6XXsv8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5ZnGvzthNTyL9tT89


Thanks

Jason

[G1911]

Wish I had another N174 pickup to continue the OJ streak. Had Billy Allen in my set already, but it was $12.88 and I was interested in the "3". In hand, it clearly is a print defect and not later damage. It's difficult to add interesting print variants or other related cards to a set this tough, so I am happy to have a card to slot in as an extra to my set.

Allen is one of the no-names in the T225-2 set. He was left out of the other sets from the same printers, I suspect there may have been some drama after T225-1 and the lithographers subsequently started doing boxers for the much larger ATC. Allen was an alright fighter though, he beat KO Brown twice, Grover Hayes once, who had a very good record but is only in T226. Fought a no decision match with Attell, lost to Pal Moore, Leach Cross and Patsy Kline.

Still looking for Ty Cobb and Kid Beebe to finish my set.

[G1911]

Less than $3 per card, the British issues are so wonderfully cheap. Starter set of 29 of the Wills back cards, and I already had Joe Gans, Jack Johnson and James Jeffries so that leaves only 4 cards to complete the Wills issue: Tommy Burns, Young Cohen, Battling Jim Johnson and Sam Langford.

[Exhibitman]

Cobb is a tough one. Besides the name confusion befuddling some baseball collectors and putting a bit of demand on the card, the fighter (Sammy Kolb) is Jewish and has no other cards I know of, so the card is in demand from collectors of Jewish boxers.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Cobb is a tough one. Besides the name confusion befuddling some baseball collectors and putting a bit of demand on the card, the fighter (Sammy Kolb) is Jewish and has no other cards I know of, so the card is in demand from collectors of Jewish boxers.

I do not look forward to paying $250 for a non short-printed scrub . But a complete set needs them all, so I'm going to sucker up on this one

[G1911]

The non-ordering info backs are pretty tough on subjects 51-76. Have not put much work in on them but I thought $104 was fair to add another. The fronts are so gorgeous it is difficult to get too excited about the backs, personally.

Kaufman makes for 96 to go on T225-1. This is the easiest set I have left to cross off needs from but the 10 backs and the details effectively restrict pick-ups to eBay because the minutia makes cherry-picking out of dealer or collection stashes without a pic of every cards front and back difficult.

I pick up the Donovan yellow skies variations whenever I see them for $10 or so.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by G1911

I do not look forward to paying $250 for a non short-printed scrub . But a complete set needs them all, so I'm going to sucker up on this one

Don’t do it yet. I think I have one and we can make a deal. Let me check when I get back to the office next week.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don’t do it yet. I think I have one and we can make a deal. Let me check when I get back to the office next week.

Thank you Adam, I would very much appreciate it and the chance to buy one and hopefully put this fun little set to bed soon.

[G1911]

Arrived yesterday, think this is my favorite pickup of the year now.

Not sure I've seen a crappier copy of this card, but beggars cannot be choosers as I don't get my pick of Sullivan's when they are very tough. The crease is heavy and threatens to cut the card in two if handled much more without solid protection. Unfortunately I will have to keep this one sleeved with a cardboard backing. I thought I had a good chance at winning but thought it would go around $1K instead of $700, so that was nice. I was putting together all my notes on the 'random' boxing N cards, this one, the N660 Corbett, etc. so it is fun to add while I have my notes fresh in mind. Would love to find the Kilrain now to pair with it.

This one is the Echo front with the purple partial diamond stamp. These stamps are usually said to be original, but I think the evidence actually strongly suggests that these purple stamps were not done before they were issued.

Sullivan is the money card as there is only a Kilrain and some actresses to complete the 24 card set, but I am pretty sure a complete set is actually impossible and that card 20 is a prize winner that we will never find a copy of. I assume the cards is from 1889.

[butcher354435]

Greg, I believe the Diamond D stamp is original. When an N386(Boxer or actress) has an advertisement on front(Echo for your copy) I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. When they don't have an advertisement on front they always have the Spaulding & Merrick writing on the reverse. I could be wrong but I haven't seen an example fit outside of what I listed above but you are much better than I am at this investigative stuff.

Attached is an example of the pattern with multiple sub issues:

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...7720319623563/

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...77720319623563

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butcher354435

Greg, I believe the Diamond D stamp is original. When an N386(Boxer or actress) has an advertisement on front(Echo for your copy) I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. When they don't have an advertisement on front they always have the Spaulding & Merrick writing on the reverse. I could be wrong but I haven't seen an example fit outside of what I listed above but you are much better than I am at this investigative stuff.

Attached is an example of the pattern with multiple sub issues:

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...7720319623563/

https://flickr.com/photos/201243808@...77720319623563

Wow that is a beautiful array, you always make the sets I consider pretty tough look easy!


I thought the stamp was an original production facility mark for a long time, as I still haven't seen a card sans the stamp. I assumed that made it pretty cut and dry and obvious, if it is on every card then that stamp must be from the production process.

What has led me to question this is how some of the stamps are placed. I have seen a few Smoke Echo actresses with the stamp placed over areas of paper loss on the back. Attached is an example of this (not my card, for disclosure). The area is paper loss - we can see the back stock pulling up where the paper loss ends in a few spots, typically evidence paper loss occurred during a forceful removal from a scrapbook or similar - but the stamp is placed over it. The stamp is fairly light on some cards, often a partial diamond as your first Kilrain shows, and I think has faded over time a bit on some, which this card also shows. There are fainter hints of the stamp on the creamy stock too, but most of it is centered in the paper loss, where it is a fairly bright impression.

This seems to leave conflicting evidence. If every card has the stamp, which seems to be the case, that strongly implies it was part of production. On the other hand, this card was stamped after it was glued into a scrapbook or something else and then pulled out of it, which would be post-production at some significant remove.

This set had a prize winning card for the set offer (certainly #20, the prize winner in the animals series, and the only card # here that is unknown to us today), but it doesn't make any sense that every surviving card was from a set turned in as a prize winner and that this stamp is a sort of cancellation mark for turned in cards. It's possible it could be post-production if all the cards of this variety known today came from one secondary source, a person who marked them with a stamp, but there is nothing to support that. I really don't know what to make of it, though I have come to think that it could not possibly be pre-production because if it was, a card with paper loss from being affixed to a scrapbook or similar would logically interrupt the stamp.

There are so many fun little mysteries about these cards for us to figure out still.

[butcher354435]

Just wondering if that paper lose was an issue the paper stock had pre-production. Have you ever seen a blank back without the Diamond D stamp? Btw, when I did some research many years ago I found Diamond was a large match mnfg at the time these cards would have been produced. I don't believe I ever found the exact stamp on other material but if I recall I found other artifacts with very similar stamps. Unfortunately I lost all of my research when one of my computer hard drives crashed...

[G1911]

Originally Posted by butcher354435

Just wondering if that paper lose was an issue the paper stock had pre-production. Have you ever seen a blank back without the Diamond D stamp? Btw, when I did some research many years ago I found Diamond was a large match mnfg at the time these cards would have been produced. I don't believe I ever found the exact stamp on other material but if I recall I found other artifacts with very similar stamps. Unfortunately I lost all of my research when one of my computer hard drives crashed...

It is possible the sheet was affixed to something and then pulled off and cut up, but I think unlikely. The shaping and pulling of the paper loss suggests to me affixture of the card to something else, and a hasty removal.

I have never seen one without the Diamond D stamp. I imagine one will probably be shown eventually where it has faded off or isn't visible, as many of the cards are very poorly stamped with only like 20% of the stamp present (like your Kilrain) or are very light. However the stamp was done, the person or machine doing it was not very consistent or diligent about it.

I have not succeeded in finding any information of what the stamp might refer too. It seems a strange marking on its face to me, usually backstamps are clearly related to production information (like the packer numbers of T107) or are from a retailer/issuer for a set with multiple issuers in lieu of printing the information, or a cancellation mark for a redemption set.

I looked through old papers, the journals, invoice records (there are ton of Spaulding & Merrick invoices and orders on the tobacco market - most of which have purple ink used to record transactions, but then again purple or black were the standard stamp color in the late nineteenth century). I have not found any record of a 'diamond' product brand or line, or any company document bearing this mark, or the use of "D" to designate something. Echo was distributed in 16 oz. tins and in foil packages, neither of which would seem logical to be designated as a "D" in company shorthand.

Spaulding & Merrick operated their own printing press, in the late 1870's at least, on which they made their own packaging materials. It is possible the cards, unlike most N cards, were produced by themselves instead of a contracted lithography firm and were an entirely in house affair. I have not found letters being used to designate the different S&M buildings in Chicago though, if it was some kind of internal routing code for the movement of goods.

[Exhibitman]

Heckuva card there. Sorry for radio silence; I got trapped on the return flight from hell. Was supposed to be home Sunday afternoon, finally made it in Monday evening. 'Slept' in the Newark airport Sunday night. Not an experience I can recommend to other travelers. Total of 27 hours from NY to LA has to be some kind of record.

I have something more on the "D" in my archives; I will have a look. Haven't forgotten your card, either, Greg, just trying to pick up the pieces from my lost day.