Genuine or Fake E90-1 Joe Jackson?

[glchen]

For sale on ebay. Any thoughts on genuine or fake? The bottom border seems a little large.

[JeremyW]

Fake. No doubt about it.

[Anthony S.]

Fake. The area with the paper tear on the upper left of the back would have had a number written (see photo) that is seen on authentic reprints (by authentic I mean not home made). This seller, or a previous owner, knows that, so he torn off the section. Also the "a" in Phila. at the bottom on the front is too far to the right. On real e90-1 jacksons, if you drew a line straight up from the right side of the "a" it would not be outside his pant leg.

[glchen]

Thanks. Learn something new every day here.

[Matthew H]

Stay away from that seller, he's been selling fakes for awhile now.

[hunterdutchess]

I noticed this "unknown" 1951 Bowman Mantle rc sell the other day of over $500. Who are these people who spend that kind of cash on fake and 100% of the unknown cards on ebay are fakes!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Matthew H]

Uh-oh Caps Lock.

[glchen]

Thanks for the advice. And maybe I should post another thread in the Memorabilia section on this, but is this an authentic tin that Mayo Cut cards would come in?

This is from ebay auction at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=310233986539

Thanks again!

[Ssavage]

I'm the dummy that bought that joe jackson card on ebay. Should've done more homework. Got an email from ebay after the sale stating that the card was a fake. Hopefully will get my money back (it was way less than $100) through ebay.

Should've known that it was too good to be true, but it seemed like the seller was legit. I was thinking of sending the card to PSA just to be sure.

[FrankWakefield]

If you shine uv light on it, black light, that card will fluoresce. That's because the paper on which it is printed was made after WW II. Modern papers almost always have brighteners added. Buying a black light would be much cheaper than paying postage and all that would be involved in sending that card to a grading service. And, if you buy the black light then you'll have it for future card acquisitions.

[ethicsprof]

judge frank is quite astute about the uv light.
i bought one 'round 5 or 6 years ago( wish i'd done so earlier) and it has
come in handy many times.

best,
barry

[canjond]

Originally Posted by glchen

Thanks for the advice. And maybe I should post another thread in the Memorabilia section on this, but is this an authentic tin that Mayo Cut cards would come in?

This is from ebay auction at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=310233986539

Thanks again!

Nope - they actually came in the Mayo lunchboxes. See here:

http://baseballandtobacco.com/n300.htm

[glchen]

Thanks for the feedback. I ended up not bidding on the tin, but I often like to collect the memorabilia (eg. wrappers, etc) associated with the cards that I'm collecting. I'll look more at that baseballandtobacco website. Thanks again!

[Bridwell]

Hey Jon,

I'm not so sure the Mayo's 1895 Baseball Cards were distributed in the Lunch Boxes. See below...

[botn]

I thought that this one was fake http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130409912363 but the buyer gave feedback for the Jackson as well as the 1915 Ruth that he bought.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by botn

I thought that this one was fake http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130409912363 but the buyer gave feedback for the Jackson as well as the 1915 Ruth that he bought.

jax looks real to me...i would've been comfortable bidding on it, paying with pp cc, and overnighting to SGC had i seen it. certainly very good homemade repros if they're fake...kind of scary if it is so i'm thinking real.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bridwell

Hey Jon,

I'm not so sure the Mayo's 1895 Baseball Cards were distributed in the Lunch Boxes. See below...

Unless I am missing something, that picture doesn't prove anything except the Mayo Pails, at least that type, were made into 1909. I have seen quite a few different varieties of the pails and have 2 different ones myself. If I am not mistaking also, sometime in the past, a card was found in a pail. I might be thinking of something else but I think I remember hearing that.....regards

[Bridwell]

Hi Leon,

The ad shows a 'new' lunchbox, so it seems to be a new product in 1909. There may have been an earlier version of the lunchbox. The version in the picture looks like the ones I've seen quite a lot on ebay.

Ron

[sb1]

N300 and N302 were packaged in a deep blue(same as the tin) and gold pack, I am of the opinion it was a soft pack of some type, as evidenced by the paper adherence they were placed right next to the package. Many cards still display remnants on the back.

[scooter729]

Not sure if it's 100% related, but my Mayo's tin has a "registered September 1878" date on it. Nothing to say these weren't produced many years after 1878, but worth noting for the discussion at least...

[Bridwell]

Hi Scott (and all),

The lunchbox in the Mayo's ad from 1909 shows the brand was registered in 1878, just like the label painted onto your tin. Your tin is a different version. I've seen about 4 different versions of a Mayo's tin. Some are smaller, and could have held a card, perhaps. Some are probably older than the 1909 lunchbox. I have a couple of soft packs of Mayo's tobacco that could have held a card, I suppose. I have one unopened pack. It would be cool to compare notes on how the N300's were distributed in 1895, if anyone has other details.

Ron

[Ssavage]

This is the card in the title under black light. It appears to fluoresce at the areas of paper loss. Sorry for the poor quality as I took the photos from my phone. I just wanted another opinion before deciding that probably the best card I'll ever own is a fake.

Thanks

photo2.jpg

photo1.jpg

photo3.jpg

[chaddurbin]

your card is a fake from the beginning...no need to shine any more light or take more pics. save the effort on getting your money back. good luck

[Matthew H]

rpsitems has been selling fakes for a long time. I agree, just get your money back and leave negative feedback.

[canjond]

Scott. Interesting. Any idea where that info came from? I had been of the belief that the N301s came in the soft packs as you described. The N300s, however, had always been told were distributed in the lunchboxes (as an FYI, I have seen lunchboxes, albeit maybe of a different style, with 1890s tax stamps). I, too, had also heard the story of the cards being found in a lunchbox - specifically 5 of them. It also wouldn't be unheard of for Mayos to be packaged in a lunchbox. We know with 100% certainty that Yum Yum were packaged in a similar square tin, two to a tin.

[canjond]

For reference - I believe this si the soft pack you are referring to. The writing is more "gold" than the scan indicates.

http://baseballandtobacco.com/n301.htm

[glchen]

Sorry, another Joe Jackson on ebay. Is this one real or fake?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-E90-1-Ameri...item4155530f51

[Ladder7]

Any prewar, raw card auction that begins with WOW and ends with "No Returns", is always a scam. Don't even bother examining the scan.

[barrysloate]

I agree Steve. When I see the word WOW I move on.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by glchen

Sorry, another Joe Jackson on ebay. Is this one real or fake?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-E90-1-Ameri...item4155530f51

i'm not trying to be mean but the examples you bring up aren't even close to looking like originals...it's like you're not taking anything useful away from these discussions. if that's the case you shouldn't be searching for raw e90-1 jacksons...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i'm not trying to be mean but the examples you bring up aren't even close to looking like originals...it's like you're not taking anything useful away from these discussions. if that's the case you shouldn't be searching for raw e90-1 jacksons...

Very good point, Quan. It's ok not to know about something but if you don't want to get scammed, and don't know, you should stick to a card that is slabbed by a reputable company. They will stand behind the card at least being authentic (about 99.99% of the times). I have seen mistakes with authenticity but they are very uncommon. regards

[glchen]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i'm not trying to be mean but the examples you bring up aren't even close to looking like originals...it's like you're not taking anything useful away from these discussions. if that's the case you shouldn't be searching for raw e90-1 jacksons...

I guess I was just hoping to learn something on how you determine the card is fake by just looking at the scans and not the rest of the ebay ad. For example, Anthony had a very good post earlier in this thread where he pointed out if the #20 were on the back, that showed that the card was originally a reprint. Therefore, I was able to determine that this Ty Cobb was a reprint:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1909-11-...pt=US_Baseball

If you don't want to help, I'd appreciate if you refrain from these snide remarks.

[fkw]

The E90-1 Jackson on eBay right now is an obvious fake and easy to tell, the back has damage right where the "20" was scuffed off, the left and right borders combined are too wide, same with the top and bottom. The elbow is too close to the border, the background is too blotchy and dark, should be a fairly even purple color, the bat is way too dark, the "k" should be right below the bat.... the whole caption is misaligned, should be offcenter to the left slightly, not centered. etc.

[glchen]

Thanks, Frank. Appreciate that!

[hunterdutchess]

Just look at this DI*K HEAD'S feed back as a buyer:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...eedbackAsBuyer

Now look at all the cards he is selling as originals:

http://shop.ebay.com/goroos/m.html?_..._from=&_ipg=50

Everyone REPORT, REPORT, REPORT!!

[esd10]

with the paper thing when i first got into collecting prewar cards i had gotten taken on a d304 evers that was a reprint and i used a uv light and it was good but when i looked at it under a magnifying glass it was not real.

[esd10]

man he spent alot on reprints and some idiot is going to get ripped off.

[ctownboy]

glchen,

If a person is selling a potential big dollar card raw, BE SUSPICIOUS.

If the card looks right, see WHAT ELSE the person is selling. In this case, goroos is ALSO selling a BUNCH of big name cards, raw, all with starting prices of .99 cents. Is there SOMETHING wrong with this picture?

After checking out what else they are selling, LOOK AT THE PERSON'S FEEDBACK!!!

In this case, the seller has bought a BUNCH of STATED reprint cards. Low and behold, guess what? Those cards have MAGICALLY become originals that were found amongst his Father's things.

I have already reported this FRAUD to eBay but they have yet to do anything about it.

David

[brob28]

Hi Gents,

Just a thought on this subject and some of the comments regarding Gary and his questions. I am a realtively new collector in pre war cards and agree with Leon 100% (If unsure buy a slabbed card). However, I value the knowledge gained by those who know more than I, and truley appreciate the detailed reasons as to why the cards are fakes. Hell, I'd pay to sit in a class and learn this stuff. The only place I can get this knowledge is a forum like Net54 and by sharing this information you make it harder for the dogs selling these cards to get away with it.

[glchen]

Hi David,

Yea, I'm definitely suspicious of when a seller sells big $ cards raw, which is why I posted that on the board. I'm very familiar in doing all of the things that you mentioned although I completely forgot about looking at what the seller has purchased. Definitely a great idea. In general, however, I'd like to be able to look at a scan, regardless of the seller, and be able to determine whether it's a reprint or not. In a recent Legendary auction, even they made the mistake of posting a fake Jackson for sale until caught by members of this board:

Fake Jackson

I don't remember if the card was slabbed or not, but things slip by even sellers who are supposed to be credible, so I'd like to be able to distinguish these things like some of our most knowledgeable board members are able. Thanks again! Gary