Couple quick board topics.....BST ??

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Posted By: leon

First of all thanks to all for keeping it relatively tame lately. Cards should be fun....please remember that. If we want stress we can go back to work... I have noticed quite a few comments (commentary) on the BST pages from 3rd parties. After a card is sold for xx amount it's not right to go post that it was worth +/- xx. I don't care if you post something else but really there shouldn't be too many 3rd party posts. I think we can discern a "funny" from an intrusion. I know I have made comments over there but not pertaining to the price... (though I did clarify what "a lot" was, jokingly)...So, bottom line, please don't make commentary over there if you aren't part of the sale. Again, there is a difference between a joke and intrusion, imo.

Next topic... The "recent pickup threads" .... I really don't care when we start a new one. We used to use the numnber "50", or a week, but maybe that's too many? If there are no thoughts on that subject let's say between 40-50 and we start a new one. At number 50 the downloads can take a long time. Any thoughts?

regards....moderator dude

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Posted By: jeff drum

As for the BST commentary I agree. In the end a card is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. We have all seen what happens in an auction when there are two hyper-interested bidders. The only place I can see a third party commentary as being useful is if the price paid was the result of a material misrepresentation on the part of the seller and I have not seen that happen.

I like the RPU listings being halted @ 50. Make the image download substantia;lly quicker.

Just MHO.

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Posted By: bigfish

I think the recent post in the BST thread was way out of line. Third parties should stay out of it. Not sure anyone ever asks for their opinions.

If you have a question, e-mail the person directly in private. That is reasonable and the recent post was not.

Just my opinion.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I certainly also feel there should be some decorum. While I see nothing wrong with a third party saying on a thread "Hey, nice card, good deal!" I think bringing the actual value might not be so wise. If I was the seller of the card, I would feel horrible losing so much $$$ on a card, sort of like a punch to the stomach.

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Posted By: Steve M.

how about the "non-responders". They post an item, you post an interest, you email your intentions, you do so twice, and NOTHING. No response, NO NOTHING. No edit to indicate sold or off the market. It just sits there. Unless the poster has died there is no excuse for this.

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Posted By: Jim Manos

I get the third party critiquing all the time.

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Posted By: jP

i agree with the Recent pickups thread. between 40-50 is a good #.

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Posted By: leon

I have been guilty of critiquing a few of your descriptions but not pricing......I don't think it's right to talk about that on the BST....but if you or anyone says something, concerning the item, besides price, and I know it to be false, then I will say something...and don't have too much of an issue with that if someone else does that too. An example would be someone saying something is super rare when it's not. If I have seen 50 in the last year then I am going to say that it's not as rare as you think it is. (this isn't necessarily just aimed at you, Jim). I don't like over-hyping on our board..leave that for ebay descriptions (again, this is not pointed at only Jim it's for everyone)....regards

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I prefer the pickups thread to be renewed frequently, so that it is less time consuming to view. Remember: not everyone has the same equiptment.

As far as kibitzing or hyper-hyping, I have no problem with either. Because I put little stock in either.

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Posted By: Bob

I agree with Toby, those "this card wasn't worth what he paid for it" posts are way off base and frigging baseless.

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Posted By: Jim Manos

How about the recent quote "someone bought all his 1911 Zeenuts and he will sell them 3 times what he paid"???????? I guess that's ok. Practice what you preach.

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Posted By: Steve M.

let's settle down. First of all Jim I don't think Bob mentioned the "someone" by name. Secondly, when the "someone" re-sold the cards for three times what he paid I don't think you heard his unnamed buyer complaining.

P.S. The McGuire and T222 Murray arrived today. Nice!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Didn't mean any harm and I think everyone involved will tell you that I did not seek to insert myself in the transaction in question. My enthusiasm just got the best of me.

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Posted By: Bob

Huh? Not even close, Jim. I am objecting to someone posting after a sale that a card isn't worth what it sold for. You are referring to a comment about "someone" (never named as Steve mentions, although you are awfully touchy) who bought up a bunch of cards solely to turn around and sell them for three times what he paid. Also as Steve correctly notes, that "someone" did exactly just that. Apples and oranges and not even close. If that "someone" wants to sell them for a hundred times what he paid, more power to him. As Jack Webb used to say, I am just repeating the facts m'am. No opinion there.
Lighten up Francis...

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Posted By: Steve M.

Francis?

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Posted By: Bob

Inside joke. In the movie Stripes Sgt. Hulva (Warren Oates) got tired of the threatening manner of one of the recruits and told him to "lighten up Francis," Francis being the guy's first name.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Tbob,
You left out the best part:
"One of these men may save your life one of these days" And then Bill Murray says "and then again maybe one of us won't...."

Stripes is a true classic....


Be well Brian

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Posted By: Joann

As a seller I'd prefer not to have the comments about low price in public - just kind of embarassing. I don't know the value of all grades of all cards, and it would make me tend to try ebay rather than guess at it.

I think 40-50 or 1 week is good for RPU. But I have high-speed net, so am probably being unfair to those that don't. I just don't like someone starting a new thread so their cards will be in the first post. Doesn't happen often, but once in awhile I wonder. Once it's above 40 it seems like fair game.

Joann

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

You know what I do not post that much anymore but this one got me thinking. This board was made as a pretty much free for all when it first started after Full Count with SOME "Guide Lines" but not many. The buying, selling, and trading was always "at your own risk!" and I thought that includes what other people will say. I just think it is so interesting that when this kind of thing happens with a ebay lot like, someone gets a big card for a really cheap bin, closes an auction down with a decent offer or an outright win that was just not seen until the end, this board is all over the person who did that and a lot of people email the seller telling them they are a fool and left a ton of money on the table, which in most cases is very true, but everyone feels it is there "Hobby Duty" to tell the ebay seller they messed up and I will buy it for more. But when it happens here everyone is all, well to bad for the seller, he set the price. I think Adams comment was very much inline and he should be able to say what he wants especially when the guy wrote the darn book on boxing cards. I think his input on this card was a educated response (and no Adam did not ask me to write this, nor did I talk with him about this situation). I do think this site is great and I read it everyday but I also think people are getting a little on edge here. (apparently me as well ) Don't get me wrong I can see how both parties could feel burned. I know how it feels from both ends as well, but on a site like this I think we should be able to voice our opinions. If we can't then why else are we a community, we should just be ebay with cool articles.

Just my 2¢

Trevor Hocking

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Posted By: leon

Those were well thought at ideas. Kudo's for that. I would agree that as long as anyone puts their name by something they can pretty much say what they want. With that being said I am not sure the buy/sell/trade area is where we want "post-sale" thoughts on the prices by third parties. Maybe I am wrong? My view on this subject would probably be to let the board do what they/we want to, by popular opinion. In other words if the consensus was to allow those 3rd party, pricing thoughts, on the BST then so be it...and if the consensus was not to allow it...then so be that. Actually I know the answer so it's sort of rhetorical. I will also try to confer with my happy go lucky helpers on this matter....but again, my guess is not to allow it...it sort of interfere's with sales...and I don't think that's good....just my 2 cents but I have been known to change my mind. Sorry for rambling .

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Posted By: quan

but i feel there has to be a line drawn about people not involved in the deal staying out. An innocent comment of "oh that sold for wayyy too cheap"...could give someone else the idea of making the seller a higher offer, not just putting the seller on the spot. A perfect example of this was the "BLAZER" t216 cobb in an SGC authentic holder on bst awhile back. Luckily the seller in this instance had integrity, but here just like anywhere else there's always some bad mixed in with the good.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Let me be clear on one thing: I had no intention of interfering with a sale. I know that sort of thing would not have happened since Mark and Paul are both upstanding guys who would not break their deal that way, and because I know that about both guys, I never considered that the post might cause a problem. All I was doing was posting a "congrats, you lucky dog" type post for Paul. We've had a lively discussion over the intricacies of E79-E80 since the National, and I viewed the comment as an extension of that. Candidly, I did not consider that it would cause a problem, and for that I am sorry. Forgive me, guys; I've taken so many depositions over the last weeks that my brains are in my @$$.

As far as the future goes, the controversy raises a really interesting issue, which Trevor hit on pretty well. There are many, many posts about how much an item went for (high and low); they are sui generis for this site. I believe that BST sales, just like any other sales, should be open targets for commentary on the board. What I don't want to see is a chilling of discussion on those sales just because they are between board members. Whether it takes place on the sale thread itself or on the main board is, frankly, a matter of procedure rather than content. I'd respectfully submit that if you want a deal to be private, don't post the offer and confirmation here, do it by email.

Quan: If the people acting here don't have integrity, a prohibition on commenting on sales via BST isn't going to instill it suddenly within them. No one here should solicit someone to break a deal and no one here should agree to do so. Period.

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Posted By: Joann

I think that if every transaction on BST is subject to open comments as to price too high, price too low, etc. it may not chill the discussion but at some point might chill the use of BST.

Not all card values are that well set or well known, especially among newer collectors. If I have to think that I'm open to "doh!" kinds of comments, well intended or not, I'd probably just head to ebay. As a buyer or seller. Even as a buyer on ebay you are not at risk for quite so much singling out, since at least one other person had to think the card was worth almost as much as you did.

And it's absolutely correct that ebay and other auction prices are routinely dissected on this board. But that's different - often a consignor isn't known, and not all ebay id's are from here either. It's a far more anonymous process. And even if the ebay price was low - well tough day on ebay. It happens. That's far different from a seller establishing a price and then finding out publicly, in the exact same area he made the sale, that it was way too low.

This does happen on BST now and then - and certainly isn't meant in any bad way by anyone, I don't think. But no one wants to feel like they got gouged or gave something away in public.

In my case - I'd actually appreciated any feedback as to the sales price I set. It's how I learn. I'd just prefer that the feedback be private.

Joann

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Posted By: Bob C

Not sure about that fancy word Brian used, but my take is it really isn’t cool to cause EITHER the seller or buyer to have remorse (other than the usual) regarding a closed transaction. It does no good for anyone to feel like they’ve left money on the table or have been duped, regardless of how noble or ignoble the third party’s intentions. In our hobby’s current changeable, fickle and, right now, sizzling setting, it’s difficult enough to keep current with demand and related values so doesn’t it come down to what the seller and the buyer agreed to? Kind of like Adam Smith’s invisible hand. Lastly, if it’s not my deal, I just keep my counsel & stay away. Sorry I have gone on a bit longer than I intended. My 2 cents.

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Posted By: John Kalafarski

I think it's Sgt. Hulka. Stripes is a lot of fun.

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Leon,

I am sure I am the very small minority here and I can see the reasons why pretty clear. The seller doesn't want to look like he didn't know what he was doing and the buyer wanted to get a great card for a great price. But it can go the other way as well, the way most would agree on as well. The seller has described his item as rare or selling a very good reprint and the buyer has been duped by the erroneous description from the seller. (which does happen here sometimes, as you stated, and should be called out) So that is ok but the other isn't. I don't think we should eliminate people from adding there input on the BST either way if it is a valid point and like you said, if they put there name by it, it should be ok. The BST should be for education on the hobby as well including pricing. I do not know the buyer or the seller in the recent situation with Adam. But I do believe we are a community and should have a freedom of speech here. I know I'm making this a lot bigger of a deal than I really should and I am sure everyone just wants to drop it but I just got my head spinning today and thought I would rant a little. After all that's what this site is good for right

Trevor

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Posted By: leon

Any scam artist aka Jacques, that comes onto the board, or those idiots with the Wagner, are fair game...ANYWHERE on the board. That's apples and oranges. As for freedom of speech we are in agreement. It just needs to be on the main forum .

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Posted By: barrysloate

Nothing whatsoever can be gained by making a comment regarding a sale after the sale has been completed. Either the third party is frustrated that he missed out on a good deal, or he is just looking to start trouble between the two parties. We are free to comment as we please, but those remarks are nothing more than negative energy. The deal is done, so who needs to hear somebody else's two cents? As a sidelight, nearly every time I have run an auction I get a call the day after it has closed by someone who says he forgot about the auction (they always forget all 17 days it is up, then magically remember one day too late), asks what a particular lot went for, and then says: "that went really cheap, I definitely would have paid more for it." It's a variation on the same theme: the sale is over, the comments are useless.

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Posted By: Bob

Doh! Yes you are absolutely right John, my bad, it is indeed Sgt. Hulka, not Hulva, long day...