PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

People can make reasonable inferences based on detailed before and after scans as well as their experience and knowledge. One doesn't need eyewitness testimony.

Based on that experience and knowledge, what chemical(s) do you think were used?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Based on that experience and knowledge, what chemical(s) do you think were used?

Yes wouldn't that be awesome. A list of chemicals and maybe detailed info on how to use them. That way we could have more idiots altering cards.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Yes wouldn't that be awesome. A list of chemicals and maybe detailed info on how to use them. That way we could have more idiots altering cards.

If you know what the discoloration is from that information is readily available on several websites.

Steve B

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

If you know what the discoloration is from that information is readily available on several websites.

Steve B

I understand that Steve. I just don't think it should be available because it is used to alter cards for the sole purpose to deceive someone to make extra $. I could give detailed instructions on how to counterfeit cards also but choose not to. I am sure you also know how easy that is.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I understand that Steve. I just don't think it should be available because it is used to alter cards for the sole purpose to deceive someone to make extra $. I could give detailed instructions on how to counterfeit cards also but choose not to. I am sure you also know how easy that is.

That's true.

It's often a tough choice, the conservation process is pretty important in some hobbies. And parts of it are a major concern of places like the LOC. All that can be used for valid conservation or deceptively. There's also some bad advice out there about how to do stuff, which can do more harm than good. So most legitimate conservation places share the information.

Info about outright faking stuff is also out there, but as it should be, is harder to find. Making a really good fake would take some skill and some budget. Most fakers thankfully don't /won't /can't take the time to learn. Even the best stamp forgers didn't do a perfect job of it. (Although there are some that are scarily close, and maybe one that is almost perfect. I haven't seen an example that I know of, but have probably seen at least one of those without knowing it. It was only mentioned to me in passing by someone far more expert. ) Sperati and Fournier are the big names, and their fakes are occasionally worth more than the originals.

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Based on that experience and knowledge, what chemical(s) do you think were used?

I would think -- and this has been reinforced by people much more knowledgeable than myself -- bleach or some sort of caustic agent. I posted the contents of an email I had received early in the thread to this effect. Maybe there are newer and better methods, but I am just really skeptical that water alone could bring about that change. I mean on the SGC 50 detailed scan I posted, look at the contrast between the protected areas on the right side and the rest of the card.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

but I am just really skeptical that water alone could bring about that change.

If you search this forum, there are many threads about successful soaking with just water...and cards that were a lot worse than the Di Maggio. Here's one...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Soak

Check out post #10. Not only does the paper and glue come off, the glue stains come out as well. Watch the video. You'll notice that after the paper is removed, there are still glue stains on the card. I'm guessing he soaked it long enough to remove the glue stains as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To my eye the issue with the DiMaggio was toning, not staining, and my understanding which could be wrong is that water alone will not remove extensive toning.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To my eye the issue with the DiMaggio was toning, not staining, and my understanding which could be wrong is that water alone will not remove extensive toning.

Maybe it is toning? There are ways to remove toning without even getting the card wet. Edited the details per Justin's request below, but he knows too.

[vintagetoppsguy]

This thread has some amazing results too...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Soak

Posts 1, 35 and 38.

[JustinD]

David, could you please remove the altering info so it is not used by random lurkers?

That info is better im'ed to Peter.

[JustinD]

Thank you David.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by JustinD

David, could you please remove the altering info so it is not used by random lurkers?

That info is better im'ed to Peter.

Done. I just wanted to show there are ways to remove/reduce toning where no chemicals touch the card at all...which I'm of the opinion that it's not considered altering given that it doesn't change the card whatsoever.