Do you have questions for SCDA?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I am going to be one of the people visiting SCDA to see how they authenticated the DiMaggio Streak Bat. I have a few questions that I will be askin and I am sure more will pop up in my head as the presentation moves along, but I am looking for any questions that you all might have so that I can bring to their attention.

You can email me the questions so I'll be able to easily print them out and organize them.

Someone posted that Heinrich was not that close to DiMaggio, so I would be interested in any supporting material to back up this claim since the video testimony of his seems to biggest reason that it is claimed to be a Streak bat.

Unlike PSA, you guys have the chance to ask the right questions and not get censored.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: davidcycleback

They're bringing in Jay, because they know a Minnesotan will be distracted by the fast pace and bright lights of central Wisconsin.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Jay, I don't have any questions, but you're a smart and experienced guy and I'm sure you do a good job.

I would hope that SCDA can provide a good service in the future, as I think organizations offering good examination services to the hobby is a good thing.

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Posted By: jay behrens

David, the whole MN thing is a ruse. I spent 20 years traveling the world and living in such cities as Philly, San Fran, San Diego, Chicago and Oralndo.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It was a joke. Iola Wisconsin is a town of 1,300 in the middle of dairy country. I didn't seriously think it would be like visiting Paris or Mexico City for the first time.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Jay, I was the one with the claim of Henrich and DiMaggio not being close. Of course I will be there in Chicago with you so I'll have this information with me.

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Posted By: dennis

jay/dan the only question i would like answered is this.it is a fact henrich used a dimaggio bat--he stated this in his 1992 book "five o'clock lightning" and also in the sabr pub. the national pastime #19 1999,in his article "the last yankee".how can one diferentiate his own bat,from a dimaggio.they are the same. it would seem the liklihood of a bat found in his attic was one of his own. also, there is no mention in the bk or his article about being given a streak bat by joe dimaggio. i would think that since both covered "the streak"(and there was no better witness).and with the high acclaim mr. henrich had for joe d. he simply would not just forget about this bat until dave bushing came along and jogged his memory. thanks guys and enjoy the experience,can't wait for the story.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Dennis, I have requested of Troy Kinunen the we be allowed to see the bat orders for Tommy Henrich from 1940-42.

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Posted By: jay behrens

You'd think that a gift of one of his Streak bats would be a prized possion that didn't get squirreled away in the attic and even mentioned when talking about the Streak.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

why he won't let anyone have copies of the documents...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Just today he told me that we would be furnished with copies of the H&B documents when I requested Henrich's bat orders from 1940-42.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

This is getting good!!!

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Posted By: jay behrens

This is kind of disappointing. A lot of people were talking smack during the thread on the card forum about the DiMaggio bat and now we have a chance to actually have questions answered by the source and I have gotten a total of 1, yes one, person responding with a few questions they would like asked, not counting those that responded directly to the thread, which still isn't many.

I guess everyone likes to be a blowhard but when push comes to shove, they slink away. SCDA was even willing to pay for 5 people to come out there and witness the whole authentication process for the bat and only 3 people took them up on the offer.

This will definately be an educational experience as I would have made this trip just to learn how they authenticate and what steps they take to back up their info.

Jay Behrens

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

You've got my responses already, so I'm covered...

Maybe the reason people aren't going is the lost days and what they cost. I know that unless I can bill my time, a trip back east would cost me at least two days of work, maybe three, which is a big hit for a self-smployed person. I imagine that relatively few people who are salaried workers would chew up vacation days on this, too. If you live close it is much easier; if PSA offered the same deal I would go since they are only a 2 hour drive away.

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Posted By: Aaron

Jay, my questions regarding SCDA were already answered by Troy.

1. I asked if SCDA authenticators would stop authenticating and selling items they owned. Troy said they would continue to do so, but with the individual authenticator's LOA instead of SCDA's LOA. So, short answer: "No".

2. I asked (several times) if they would require auction houses to identify items the authenticator owns in the item's description and Troy said this would be addressed with a "check box" system on the LOA. So, short answer: "No".

3. I asked if jerseys that I'd purchased in past auctions were owned by anyone at SCDA, and Troy told me he checked with Dan Knoll and Dave Bushing and they said "No," although he offered no proof. (This one is one me to check with Mastro, etc., and see if they will provide information.)

So, basically in terms of the conflict of interest questions, they've already been asked and responded to. SCDA feels like they've gone as far as they're willing to without jeopardizing the income of those associated with SCDA.

To that end, while your trip might be somewhat educational, it's basically just a carefully orchestrated (as in they're going to show you what they want to show you) PR trip that obscures the real issues (undisclosed conflict of interest) and uses you as a pawn to help clear their name. Personally I think you are wasting your time.

I'm much more interested in what Adam might uncovers during the discovery process and over the course of the Planich litigation, then a field trip to the cracker factory.

--Aaron

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Posted By: Vikes066

Here are some things that should be considered or examined:

a) Someone should offer Robert Plancich a ticket to be there. No one would be more credible and it would actually be a bit of olive branch towards Plancich who took a lot of heat early on for raising the questions that have turned out to be warranted.

b) Physical examination of DiMaggio order/shipping records.

c) Physical examination of Heinrich order/shipping records.

d) Ball mark examination of the bat. It has been widely reported that the ball marks show that there is more use on the side that a left handed batter would make. The assumption would be that it was really a Heinrich bat not a DiMaggio.

e) The group should be allowed to examine/view in its entirety the interview tapes of Heinrich being interviewed. Whomever viewed it would see if they posed "leading" questions to a 90 year old man. It would also be able to show the state of mind (or possible lack there of) for Heinrich.

f) It would be helpful if there was a way to find out the financial status of the Heinrich family to see if there was any motivation to "stretch the truth" to receive a large payday. I am not accusing anyone here but a lot of these retired pros never saw a lot of $$ playing. His family may have had some motivation (past due tax liens, grandkids heading to college, bad business investments etc.)

g) Someone should demand of SCDA that they disclose any and all other Bushing owned items authenticated and sold by Bushing that bore the SCDA LOA/COA. If they are not willing to come clean when given the opportunity to do so, that will shed light onto their business ethics. This will always be a black eye/black cloud over SCDA until they come clean. Bushing's name is already turning to mud according to a lot of big collectors. This will be SCDA's chance to give some seperation from the deserved bad publicity.

h) Someone suggested that an outside media source should be invited as well. That is a very good suggestion. Maybe Bob Ley or Jeremy Schapp of ESPN should be invited or Micheal O'Keeffee of the NY Daily News whom has written all the articles on the memorabilia business should be invited.

I hope that whomever goes is able to bring back and post whatever goes on positive or negative to report back to those who are not on the trip.

What is the timetable for the visit?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Most of the things you list are on the table for the visit. Robert Plancich can not be there because of the pending litigation against him, but I think they are going to have a representative there. I have been told that O'Keefe was also given an invite, but declined. I don't know the financial situation of the Henrich family, but in one of my old Robert Edward auction catalogs his game used glove was auctioned off and didn't go for much. It stated that it came directly from a recent estate auction of the Henrich family. I'm guessing that they auctioned off his estate around the time he was going into residential care. That really is not evidence either way if his family was in need of money. As for the ballmarks, I am told we will be shown photos from the HoF that show DiMaggio batting both label up and down. I have also been told that you can see this in the Ken Burns Baseball documentary which I own and will be watching this before I go out to Chicago. I have looked at hundreds of photos in my own collection and honestly can not tell if he bats label up or down on any of them. As for the authenticators having conflicts of interest I think SCDA is headed in the right direction, but really they could do more to make sure this is avoided in the future, and I think it would be in their best interest to do so.

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: jay behrens

Aaron, trust me on this, it will be almost impossible for them to use me pass along their PR. I am the ultimate skeptic when it comes to claims made by anyone. I always wonder what people are really trying to say, especially when it comes from a company that is looking to spin something or do damage control.

I am going in with an open mind, but they have a lot of work ahead of them if they think I am going to walk out there giving them a glowing report.

I got a good chuckle out of a response (not to me) to the Seaver glove as to how they fouled up that one and and the claim was that it was dated CIRCA 1971. Circa meaning that it game them a 5 year window on either side, lol.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: PASJD

Was the Henrich family the "consignor" as one of the above posts states, or did Bushing buy the bat prior to its being auctioned? I had thought it was the latter.

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Posted By: jay behrens

That's something I hope to clear up. All SCDA has ever said is that Bushing had a "financial interest" in the bat. Whatever that means.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: PASJD

This from Troy's post in the very long thread started by Robert Plancich: "H&B was aware of the fact that Dave owned the bat before the sale was finalized." If that is so, I wonder how much the Henrich family lost out on by selling the bat to Bushing rather than consigning it to the auction.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

From what I have gathered Bushing originally purchased the bat from Henrich's daughter for $30,000. The Henrich family may have been given more money after the bat was "determined" to be a "streak" bat and sold for $350,000. I am not sure if this is fact though.

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Posted By: Aaron

If that's true, then it's a good thing Bushing was able to determine it was a streak bat AFTER he bought it. He sure made a killing off H&B.

Tell me again, why H&B is suing Robert Planich and not Bushing???

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Supposedly Robert Plancich is keeping them from placing the bat in their museum and costing them business. I'd love to see them argue that in court.

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Posted By: Joe P.

You would be kind enough to send them your Game Plan & Play Book?

Come to my parlor!
Said the spider to the fly.

Jay, love ya man, but let's be realistic.
If you don't have the questions, the ferver and the research background of a Robert Plancich:
Why are you going?

Some have already said it, and I agree with them.
This is just an amateur PR feeble attempt to get a handful together so that they can use their prepared and rehearsed stonewall lines on you -- on their turf.

They are not going to admit conflict of interest to anyone on their turf. .... status quo.

It would make great SCD print.

"Group faced Us, and they couldn't touch Us with a glove."

Wrong Turf.

Jay amigo, you're not in that league, and it's not a sight seeing tour.

They have rehearsed their lines.

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Posted By: PASJD

What "league" do you need to be into to ask questions of people who authenticate memorabilia? This isn't rocket science, and these guys aren't that sophisticated that, no matter how much they rehearse, they are going to fool anyone if they don't have persuasive evidence and answers to some fairly obvious questions. I think you are giving Bushing and Troy et al. way too much credit here. I don't know Jay or Dan, but they seem like experienced and capable men who are not going to be deceived by any b.s. thrown their way.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Joe, they've agreed to let me video tape the whole thing. And you can bet that if they try to spin our visit into something that it wasn't, I'll be the first one to speak up about it.

It may be a PR spin tour, but none the less, I gotten a bunch of good questions to ask them and the responses will be interesting and telling.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: Joe P.

You can teach a parrot to say words, but it's still a parrot.
Maybe in Parrot Land they might be considered sophisticates, but we're talking about the Stabilizers.

I know very little about gloves, bats, e- cards and some T-cards, but if it's a T set that I feel pretty well versed in, and at the top of my game:
I wouldn't be begging for questions.
If however people voluntarily called or e-mailed me with added contributions, there's nothing wrong with that.
To ask for questions and then get PO'd because he's not receiving enough of them, tells me one thing.
He's not ready for prime time.

Having taken on a Stabilizing caper of my own, my counselor and I knew what questions to ask.

You mentioned Dan, and he said it best.

"I'd love to see them argue that in court."

Stay well amigo.
Joe

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Posted By: PASJD

I think of card guys as practicing "stabilization," and bat guys (batmen?) as practicing alchemy. Who was it who spun straw into gold, Rumpelstiltskin?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Joe, I have a plenty of questions that I plan on asking them that I came up with on my own, but I am not so vain as to think that I know evrything and will come up with every possible question. That is why I asked people to submit questions. I'd bemore worried about someone going to visit these guys that thinks they know everything than someone like myself that is willing to admit I don't know everything and am willing to look for assistance.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: Joe P.

Get me Rumpelstiltskin's number.

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Posted By: Joe P.

"Joe, they've agreed to let me video tape the whole thing. And you can bet that if they try to spin our visit into something that it wasn't, I'll be the first one to speak up about it.

It may be a PR spin tour, but none the less, I gotten a bunch of good questions to ask them and the responses will be interesting and telling."

----------------------------
Jay, we've already heard their stonewall response to the questions.
What makes you think that they're going to change their tune?
I don't doubt that you have questions.
What they would fear is five (5) Robert Plancich.
They would try to avoid that like the bubonic plague.

What makes you think that they can't read?
They've read every thread dealing with their stabilizations.
They know the Game Plan & your Play Book.

Have you ever wondered why they would want you on their turf?

Or why they don't mind you bringing your video camera?
Where are you going to play the tape, .. in court. .... don't be naive to think that this set up wouldn't be orchestrated on their turf.

Once you are there, it's their turf and their rules. ... the best you can do is get up and leave, but you probably wont.

All they need is an old box camera.
A nice group picture.
Send it to SCD.
The caption will read:
"We Have Nothing To Hide."

Jay, I know that this is going to be diffcult to believe, but they may try to stonewall even you.

Their conflict of interest, & credibility is being rightfully questioned, and they are concerned.

BTW Jay, why did you change your signature.
The one about all that illicit depravity, filth and you wanted in.
It was one of my favorites.
Joe

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I am also going along for the "tour". It doesn't cost a bowlingshoegiverouterguy much time because I have alot on my hands. I know I have not chimed in but have read it all are are very skeptical of the whole authentication process. I am going into this with an open mind but have no intention of letting this be a PR move for them. I will report back with the way I see that it all falls out.

Joe, I don't understand why you are so skeptical of the whole visit. I don't see that it favors one end or the other. It soounds like you should be one to go along because you are very skeptical of there handling of the whole situation and how it is being handled and going to be handled.

Lee

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Posted By: Joe P.

You are proving every point that I have mentioned.

If you read what I've written slowly, you will see where I've stated that I know very little about gloves, bats, e-cards and some T-cards.
I have an open mind. but it's not my area.

An open mind alone, is a luxury that we can't afford. ... they would love that.
You and Jay have an open mind.

Robert Plancich has an open mind, but it's also backed by Hard and LOUD research.

That's The Difference You Apparently Fail To See, Or Comprehend.

Here's to the open mind.
The Union is secured.

If you're going into battle with just an open mind.
They'll wine you and dine you.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Joe, thanks for the tips and advice. I've read everything. I understand it and you obviously don't know me very well or you wouldn't keep spouting off the way you do. Now unless you are willing to step up and go visit these guys, go back to your corner and save your ranting for the next topic since you obviously have nothing contructive to add to this subject. You are sounding like a broken record.

Jay

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- WOW, What a ride!

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Posted By: Judge Dred

It would be great if Robert Plancich could be there but it doesn't appear that this is going to happen. Has anyone contacted Plancich to see what he would ask? Perhaps he might not be able to be there physically but at least his thoughts could be present.

Andy is correct. Taking time out of a busy schedule is difficult for a lot of people. There are job considerations, family issues and just life in general that prevents many of us from taking this few day excursion.

The corporate "dog and pony" show is there for a purpose and believe me, many times it's a PR game of smoke and mirrors.

Jay, I would read all of Plancich's posts and see what he had written. Just for you I've prepared the following list of threads with easy access:

Robert Plancich N54 Threads

Plancich....Two Requests
09JAN05

PSA'S OWN VERSION OF "BELIEVE IT OR NOT"
08JAN05

Cleaning up the hobby
03DEC04

Ty Cobb/Bushing/SCDA/Game-Used Decal Bat
04DEC04


The Memorabilia Road Show is a No Show
05DEC04

Information about C.A.R.D.S. Organization
07DEC04

Koufax No - Hitter Glove a No - No!
07DEC04

"WHAT'S MY LINE" BY ROBERT PLANCICH
09DEC04


AM - BUSHING THE "HOBBY"
09DEC04


COBB DECAL BAT & AMERICAN MEMORABILIA
12DEC04

Ichiro bat
28DEC04

PBOR.'s - Dave Bushing's magic wand!
29DEC04

Please Be Advised .....
29DEC04

Calif's Autographed Sports Card/Memorabilia Law
30DEC04

Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories
31DEC04

Say It Ain't So Joe and SCD
01JAN05

SCD Announces its "Authenticating the Authenticators"
01JAN05

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Posted By: Joe P.

1. I did my stepping up back in 1990.
Long before you had your eyes open to stabilization, and to some of the auction houses.
After reading your inputs, it is very apparent that you're just opening your eyes now.

2. Unlike your current open mind position, I was armed with researched facts in an area that I was very familiar with, and got the job done.

Thinking back on it, I just remembered a humorous touch to the episode.
It was Bill Mastro that recommended the counselor.
I couldn't have asked for a better counselor.

Dan said it best.
"I'd love to see them argue that in court."

I sincerely wish you luck, and I will be following each STEP with interest.

Bye bye.

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Posted By: PASJD

As to the question of Bushing not disclosing his financial interest in the streak bat, I think most of us have formed an opinion about that already, and rightfully so. But as to the bat itself, none of us (as far as I know) have heard Bushing's explanation first-hand, or seen the Henrich tape, or been privy to the other relevant facts, so going with an open (although skeptical) mind seems to me to be appropriate under the circumstances.

Separately, does anyone know why Robert Plancich is not going? Is he not invited? Did he decline? Was he advised by counsel not to go? If he is not invited that would certainly increase my skepticism about the good faith of the "authenticators."

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Robert has been invited, but I do not know the reason why he is not going. As for this being a PR stunt by SCDA I don't think that is really true. I think this is spin control and they have invited any one of us to come and see how they authenticated this bat. I intend to find out how this bat got an A-10. I am going in with an open mind as we have only heard Robert's side of this as Bushing refuses to speak in this forum, and I have many questions to ask them based on my own research which I am not going to divulge in this forum. I think it should be noted that Mr. Plancich also is open minded about this bat and has never said that it is impossible that this bat is real. The question remains is how did SCDA come to the conclusion 100% that this bat is a streak bat?

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Posted By: vikes066

When will this fabulous all expenses paid trip take place? I'm sure you will be put up in the magnificent 5 Star Rouge Chateau Inn (thats Red Roof for those who can't read French)along with the finest in cuisine at the local Castle de Blanc. (White Castle).

All kidding aside when is this trip taking place? We are looking forward to reading your findings after they try to bamboozle you with a truckload of BS.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The trip will take place Feb 22nd. You can be assured you will get a full report.

Jay

Suppose you are an idiot...then suppose you are the President. Oh, wait. I'm repeating myself.

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Posted By: dennis

don't forget to take your boots and a shovel.